www.byzcath.org Forums Mysteries: The Life of Worship Vespers, Matins & the Divine Liturgy The Revised Divine Liturgy Question #1 on New Translation of Liturgy

Father Deacon John�s quote of canon law included a reference to:

The changes to the Byzantine Liturgy (the suppression of antiphon verses, litanies, and the mandate that the most of the quiet prayers and the Eucharistic Prayer be prayed aloud and the CHANGES to the text) are not an �accurate observance� of the Byzantine Rite. They are innovations.

The bishops have abandoned their duty �to see most carefully to the faithful protection� of the Byzantine-Ruthenian Recension.

Forced change is never organic. Those who love our Ruthenian Church must find the courage to oppose them.

I urge every member of the Ruthenian Church to write a letter of complaint to:

Patriarch Cardinal Ignace Moussa I (Basile) Daoud
Congregatio pro Ecclesiis Orientalibus
Palazzo del Bramante,
Via della Conciliazione, 34
00193 Roma, Italy
Telephone: 06.69.88.42.82
Fax: 06.69.88.43.00

Most Reverend Gabriel Montalvo Higuera
Vatican Apostolic Nuncio
3339 Massachusetts Avenue, N.W
Washington, DC 20008
Telephone: (202) 333-7121
Fax: (202) 337-4036

After all of this meandering Nick, I repeat my earlier remark that for some there is really nothing, apart from their own way (whatever informs it), that would settle the matter.

ps what do you make of "after prior review of the Apostolic See"?

JD writes:

Prove it, please.

Dear Father David,

First thanks for pointing out the difference between "full" and full. Presumably those who are certain of just what is authentic and what is an innovation know these things. But I write in response to your challenge.

First, have you actually clocked the duration of an antiphon verse? At the tempo I use ~15 sec. Cutting out six verses (two of each antiphon) saves exactly 1.5 min + zero overhead ("start-up" time) since the first verses are taken anyway. If I devolve to a painfully slow tempo I can stretch the time to 2.5 min. I think that in the scheme of 1hr +, the time savings here are utterly trivial. I assume this point had been discussed by the liturgical commission, and I am curious why it was conceived that any other part of the liturgy would have to be sacrificed.

But if a "sacrifice" were to made, then I propose:
leave the privae antiphon prayers private (like everyone else) and made the antiphons more or less contiguous by chanting straight throught the little litanies with simultaneous chanting by the priest and singers - a common custom (whose history I would like to know better). Better adherence to common practice on the litanies and, I expect, a net time savings, for those counting.

ps
If you are going with: "Mercy , peace, ...", then I hope you had the good sense to invert the syntax of the priests intonation to match the poetic syntax of the Slavonic and Greek (Object/Subject/Verb i.e., the holy anaphora we offer). With this change, the response, which recapitualtes and elaborates the Object, and thus completes the Priest's sentence in the dialogue in normal word order (Subject/Verb/Object). Without it, the response doesn't make a great deal of sense. (Or just add : "we offer" before Mercy, ...)

Nick,

the supreme authority of the Catholic Church, the Roman Pontiff, promulgated the CCEO. As I understand so he has no problem with a Metropolitan's competence to approve liturgical books and their translations for use in the Metropolitan Church sui juris, why do you?

Dear DJS,

I'm not sure I follow your comment above. I for one have never heard the Prayers of the Antiphons taken aloud. To what private antiphon prayers do you refer?

IIRC a change of this sort was part of the working text posted here by Deacon Lance on the last go round. If I recall incorrectly, (IIRI?), then I would just propose the compression, as above, of the little litanies.

Can anyone here, rich or poor, laymen, priest, bishop or patriarch, anyone at all define exactly what this "sacrificing" means? Is time the only commodity and consideration in our already rather short time before the Holy Mysteries? Has the stopwatch taken over received tradition and is now the sole guide of "pastoral sensitivity"? I am seriously asking in sincerity, not as a rhetorical commentary on the subject of this thread.

Subdeacon Randolph,

One of the goals was to keep the Liturgy at around an hour. I don't think it was the only consideration, but it certainly has to be taken into account, for if one does not people start leaving at the hour point anyways. Perhaps we should be glad people are willing to give any hour when many others give nothing at all or opt for the Latin parish down the street where they only have to give 45 minutes.

Fr. Deacon Lance

I appreciate your candor of response. I would say that still doesn't get at the heart of the meaning of "sacrificing other parts of the Liturgy".

Your answer seems to beg additional questions. Why is "one hour" a magic goal, especially if apparently some may not really want to be there anyway? Are the considerations completely quantitative (i.e. numbers in the pews)?

Father Lance, Christ is Risen!
May I respectfully note that in the Orthodox Church (ubiquitously in the Old World, and in traditional parishes in the New World), and, I suspect, in Byzantine Catholic Churches in the Old World, the Holy Liturgy is rather longer and follows some other service, the Third and Sixth Hours (North Slavic practice, as well as in Monasteries every where) or Matins (everywhere else), and the people come at a time commensurate with their piety. The service on Sunday morning lasts from two and a half to six hours, but no one leaves early; rather, few people are there at the beginning. This, methinks, is received Byzantine tradition and no one complains about the length of the service.

Photius, Reader

Dear Photius,

You remind me of the time I visited a Russian Orthodox parish for the ordination of my friend (whom I helped bring to Orthodoxy - don't ask . . .).

I was very impressed by the piety of the people who kept buying beeswax candles and bringing them and bringing them etc.

People stood in one spot without moving and one dared not invade another's space!

The Orthodox Bishop gave a sermon and gently chastised the people for keeping to the back.

He turned and pointed to near the Iconostasis - "That is where your place is - not so far to the back!"

And then afterwards people moved slowly forward . . .

I was late, but the service still lasted for over three hours.

After a while, one learns to stand in one spot, feet flattened out etc.

And you are right, length should be no issue.

That is why everyone should daily recite St Seraphim's Rule to the Theotokos in addition to their other prayers.

Don't you think so?

Alex

Alex,
I didn't really care for the rosary until I learned the Byzantine wording, "Rejoice, O Virgin Mother of God, Mary full of Grace."
Also, I think the length of the Byzantine Liturgy keeps it a more reverent experience. Wolfgang

Dear Wolfgang,

What you say is very true - somehow, the word "Rejoice" has a much more meaningful connotation than "Hail."

Alex

Dear Alex, Christ is Risen!
How does this differ from your parish? I had understood that you observe Orthodox customs.
I think it a pious thing to do, but certainly I would not say "should". Personally, I have a prayer rule given to me by my spiritual father, and adding St. Seraphim's Rule to the Theotokos would necessitate my dropping something else from my prayer rule, which I would need a blessing to do.

Photius