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Dear Sam:

As Pilate says in the Gospel, what is Truth?

As my feeble intellect understands the concept of Truth, we, in our human state, cannot grasp it.

I imagine that's why some people get angry on this board when others claim to have THE definitive answer on a topic.

Yours,

kl

Dear Joe:

I agree that there were histroical tides that assisted in the outcry against Humanae Vitae, but this does not detract from my point that the Church has little credibility when it speaks on socio-political issues.

The Vatican came out with a statement opposing the war with Iraq. The reaction? "So what - what do a bunch of priests know?"

This, of course, ties in nicely with Axios' point about clericalism. The Church needs to wake up and realize that people are simply not going to listen to the Church becasue it is the Church.

Now, am I saying that the Church can't touch world politics and social issues? No, of course not. (You reading this, Theophilios?). It would have been grossly irresonsible for the Church to ignore our spiritual needs in the wake of, for example, 9/11.

Still, discretion might be the better part of valor every now and again. Where that line is, I don't know. Perahps it's like a Justice of the Supreme Court said when talking about pornography. Paraphrasing, he said, I can't define it, but I know it when I see it. One can only hope that the Church knows the line when it sees it.

Yours,

kl

Actually, no one has listened to the Church because it is the Church since the Protestant Reformation. After the Second World War the Church was criticized for not speaking up against Hitler and now it is told not to say anything about the Iraqi War. As if this pope, who lived through both the Nazi and the Marxists, has nothing 'realistic' to say about war because he is a priest. What has changed in the world since September 11th? Not much only Americans have now learned the lesson the rest of the world has known for some time, that no country is immune to terrorist acts.

The problem is due to sin.

Such horrible things can only be prevented by virtue, that is, by all those who call themselves Christians actually living the Christian life. When people � especially clergy � do not lead virtuous lives they should be fully disciplined (canonical and civilly) and urged to repent and reform their lives and help be given to the victims to help them heal. In this latter case the Church needs to respond with candor: sincerity, openness and truthfulness. The Church has failed on both counts. It needs to repent of its actions, help those who have been victimized (and not just with dollars, but also with prayer and counseling), and take steps to ensue that such abominable things do not happen again.

These are always difficult discussions. The average priest does live a Christian life that serves as a model worthy of imitation. In this period of scandal we, the lay faithful, need to pray for our priests and support them as best as possible since they are automatically painted with the same brush. Yet the problem does persist and will continue to persist until the Church gets serious about it.

Michael Rose actually addresses a different issue than the current scandal. He speaks mostly to the problem of sexually active homosexual priests. That is a different (but not totally unrelated) problem than the current scandal. Rose speaks mostly to the problem of homosexual activity between priests (and others) who are adults. The current scandal in the press is about priests who have sex with children (mostly homosexual sex and mostly with teen).

Michael Rose may sensationalize the issue but his conclusions are very accurate. There is a problem with homosexuality in the priesthood. Celibate homosexual priests who continue to be sexually active need to be removed from their posts. Unmarried heterosexual priests who are sexually active need to be removed from their posts. Seminarians destined for a celibate priesthood who have a problem with celibacy should not be ordained.

I have to say I have no problem with the Administrator's post above and find it enlightening and articulate.

Axios

I am happy to see the Administrator dispel the idea that Rose's book makes makes a case regarding the source of the current scandal. And to note that it lacks scholarship, tending toward sensationalism (see e.g., http://www.culturewars.com/2002/may02_ggm.html ).

I have found on-line the Harvey Silverglate piece pointing out the over-reaching of the Mass AG.
http://www.opinionjournal.com/editorial/feature.html?id=110003811
(and a related article detailing the constitutional issues - http://www.bostonphoenix.com/boston/news_features/other_stories/multipage/documents/02201543.htm )

Some great food for thought about the conduct of bishops in this matter. There has been a lot of talk of zero-tolerance, one-strike, etc., but AFAIK there hasn't been much "understanding of the implications of a church that believes in the redemption of sinners, where pastors see themselves as shepherds rather than adjuncts to prosecutors."