www.byzcath.org Forums Mysteries: The Life of Worship Vespers, Matins & the Divine Liturgy The Revised Divine Liturgy A Call for a Conference on Our Liturgy!

[QUOTE]Originally posted by Cathy:
"Our people (the average joe in the pew) need to be educated on the state of our church. I firmly believe that many people would be more welcoming if they understood the peril the church is facing. Byzantine Catholics need to understand that the Byzantine Church is open to all, regardless of race or ethnicity."

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That's why we need some sort of town hall at the very least, so folks understand what is happening to the Church. We need a vision.

Are we so afraid of another Fr. Alexis Toth or Fr. Orestes Chornock leading the few people that remain back to Holy Orthodoxy? Perhaps this is the great fear keeping us from meeting.

The truth is, we'll drive most folks who are the future of our church in the direction of ACROD or the OCA by doing nothing anyway.

Why not go down courageously? We do still read from the Synaxarion in our churches, right? Think of the martyrs and what they did because they were on fire for the Lord!

The numbers of immigrants in Cleveland is not 50% of all of the number of immigrants in the entire Eparchy. Too many priests are tied up in Cleveland and not enough are available in the wastelands of such out of the way places as Southern Ohio, Illinois, Wisconsin, Missouri, Iowa and the like. Most of those tiny chapels of convenience are subsidized by the rest of the Church. If they were growing that would be one thing. But without more priests tying them up in a bunch of little Churches in unconscionable. Don't close the Churches. Combine the Churches. That's what we've been saying over and over again.

CDL

John,

"The truth is, we'll drive most folks who are the future of our church in the direction of ACROD or the OCA by doing nothing anyway."

The Melkites don't seem to fear meeting. Why are we so fearful?

CDL

To the people in the pews, it's the same thing, and I would agree you're splitting hairs. In Cleveland/Parma proper, there are probably three churches that could be combined. The rest are fairly spread out, now I realize not to your liking, but they are on different sides of the river.

We really need to evangelize. A friend emailed an article to me in today's Cleveland Plain Dealer about some Roman Catholic Churches in Cleveland celebrating the Latin Mass, although not officially given permission to do so. The real meaning -- there is a large number of Catholics who want/need a Liturgy that is more traditional. We need to let them know that Catholics have choices. Someone at the Chancery needs to contact the reporter at that paper and educate them on what is available to Catholics in the Cleveland-area.

Those are the types of steps we need to take. When we sit, we lose these opportunities.

They are Roman Catholics they are not the same they just can't slide over. The byzantine is NOT just another form of Mass that RCs can just substitute for their own. All we would be doing is buying into their problems. Those Byzantine churches flooded out by Tredentines have been very sorry they had them around when they tried making changes. San Diego UGCC a case in mind. If on the otherhand they were genuinely interested in the whole Byzantine situation and were ready to abandon all goes with the Latin rite, then that would be Ok. They could be intergrated without disturbance to the congregation.

Cathy,

If you believe it would be useful that the paper be contacted why don't you do that?

Pavel,

I agree with you. We aren't flooded with angry trads at Annunciation. In fact, I don't know of any. But we aren't Latin Trad's in disguise. We are Byzantines. Every Church should evangelize but unless we put more priests on roller skates and send them around to more parishes we don't have enough priests without combining parishes to expand into new territory. For that matter, if the bishops are serious about implementing "Heaven on Earth" I doubt the a 20 member congregation could do it.

I sure wish the "Heaven on Earth" text could be made available.

CDL

Dan: We've had an annul meeting - the Uniontown Pilgrimage - for over seventy years. Does that meeting need to be re-modeled for more seminars and social functions rather than emphasizing prayer and sacraments? How would that help us?

I agree with this point totally. We cannot take for our churches for granted. We need to confront some unpleasant realities about how we've been doing that, and how that puts us in jeopardy.

Are you suggesting that more fear will make us less fearful? I doubt that it works that way.

CDL

Isn't 9/11 a case in point?

9/11 produce a rather thin broth of patriotism I should think. Wouldn't it be better to witness because of our love of God and not fear of institutional extinction?

CDL

Oh definately because of the love of God. However, priests have reported so many coming back to God because of 9/11. They heard confession for hours on end, also people who had not come in some cases that I heard a half century went to confession.

You are right, they did it for the wrong reason, but the fact is they did.

I was speaking with a young woman that I think is 21. She said she thought she had all the time in the world to come to Jesus, until...she fell and broke her hand and ended up with Arithmia of her heart, they had trouble stopping, and don't know why it happened so far. She said it has been a real wake up call to her. Sadly enough it is fear that brought her to that decision. But, we are a comfortable people, and all to often God has to knock us off our white horses to get our attention.

Pani Rose

I agree with you Pani Rose. Remember, the church is not a museum for saints, but a hospital for sinners.

"There is a crack in everything. That's how the light gets in."
- Anonymous

Hiding what is really going on is exactly what many are complaining the hierarchs are doing with the new Liturgy. The truth will set us free. Free to make better choices as a parish family and really think about how we proclaim the gospel to others.

"Dan: We've had an annul meeting - the Uniontown Pilgrimage - for over seventy years. Does that meeting need to be re-modeled for more seminars and social functions rather than emphasizing prayer and sacraments? How would that help us?"

A Pilgrimage and a conference are two different sorts of gatherings, and trying to combine the two in one weekend does not strike me as a sensible exercise.

Fr. Serge

Depends entirely on the agenda.