www.byzcath.org Forums Mysteries: The Life of Worship Vespers, Matins & the Divine Liturgy The Revised Divine Liturgy Liturgy for All Byzantines

Why is it that not all the Byzantine Churches are involved in the Revised translation of the Liturgy to English?

There are enough Bishops to represent several of the major sui iuris Churches?

Most of us wonder the same thing. Perhaps the proposed conference in August in Chicago can solicit an answer.

CDL

Actually, Laka, each particular Church has generally derived her own liturgical materials. Some have greater degrees of collaboration and mutual participation than others.
FDD

Father Deacon,

I wasn't a ware of this. I know though that several priest have expressed the sentiment that they wished that all the Churches would be involved, then all us Byzantines would have one translation (from th Greek I suppose).

As for as other traditions such as Liturgical chant and etc. I think the collaboration wouild foster each of the own Churches to produce and handle this.

I certainly don't disagree. There have been several SCOBA endeavors spearheaded through St. Vladimir's Seminary over the years with Mark Bailey, Dr. Drillock, et. al. to share the wealth of musical traditions and renditions amongst the Orthodox.
FDD

Father Deacon,

Also, I have worshiped with the revised translation (or one? I don't know).

The Seminary comes over to Franciscan University once a semester to have Divine Liturgy on campus. There are many revisions that I enjoy! Such as the use of the word Essence instead of substance.

However, once the revised Liturgy is produced for the Ruthenians, us Melkites will still be using our translation (substance).

I hope to learn all that I can about the Byzantine (and in some instances Melkite) Church. Theology, Hymnography, Iconography, etc.

I have already begun actually. I bought the new Horologion that Sophia Press published.

Yes, Sofia Press has done an admirable job in making the Menaion, Octoechos, Pentecostarion, and Triodion available to the Melkite faithful, and now the Horologion. Archbishop Raya dreamed about making all of those available to the faithful, and praise God he lived to see many of them produced. He was the real pioneer with Byzantine Daily Worship. Blessed repose and eternal memory to Sayedna.
FDD

A semsible approach, which the Standing Conference tried a decade or so ago, was to produce a scientifically accurate translation from the Greek, then invite each group to adapt the translation for its own use. Three such adaptations were produced, but they all seem to have died the death. It appears that each jurisdiction, both Greek-Catholic and Eastern Orthodox, considers it somehow a point of honor to have "their own" translation.

Serge Keleher

?????

LYR - I certainly haven't been on the watch for the "s-word", but I don't ever recall hearing substance in the DL or at any time during our other services. The quotes that come to mind:

"of one essence with the Father"
"Trinity one in essence and undivided"

As for the different translations- as someone else mentioned, in both the Orthodox and Catholic side there's a mess of proprietary translations of the DL, the Liturgy of the Hours, the Menaia, the Triodion and all that, at the eparchy level and sometimes at the parish level. I'd imagine Bishop +KALLISTOS' Triodion is probably the closest to an English standard for any one particular book - but still its "unversailty" is informal and based on the decisions of an individual parish.

As everyone else has said, it would be wonderful if there was a universal translation of a particular Typikon. That's a problem we'll need to solve after we get done with the jursidiction issue. :rolleyes:

MarkosC,

I can tell you for sure that the word substance is used in those two quotes you mentioned at the Melkite Churches in Phoenix and in Akron.

Also, The numerous Ruthenian Churches I have attended in Weirton, WV; Indianapolis, IN; Pittsbrugh, PA; and Aliquippa, PA.

Dear Laka Ya Rabba and MarkosC,

I concur with Laka. At our Ruthenian parish, we currently use "substance" in the recitation of the creed, and "Trinity one in substance and undivided".

One thing I did notice in the Byzantine Daily Worship, during the funeral liturgy, the Melkite version utilizes "standards" whereas we say "precepts". Just wanted to throw that little thing out there.

In Christ,

Michael