www.byzcath.org Forums Mysteries: The Life of Worship Vespers, Matins & the Divine Liturgy The Revised Divine Liturgy Further Liturgical Thoughts

The festal propers from the proposed Divine Liturgies book are in the monthly Menaion on the Metropolitan Cantor Institute Publications [metropolitancantorinstitute.org] page. (The proposed book also has weekday and common propers; the common propers are used in the Menaion as well, as needed. The Menaion contains more than is in the Divine Liturgies book, of course.)

These propers have been distributed on request for the past two years, and posted on the website for the past year (and mentioned on this forum).

Yours in Christ,
Jeff

P.S. There IS a reason we put these texts out and ask for comments and questions.

Please save for me the time I would spend rooting around here in the archives, and direct me to a supplier? And thank you for the recommendation.

I wanted to thank you for your kind and mysterious words from yesterday but did not wish to interrupt that flow of ideas so I begged your pardon and thanked you in silence.

I did also wish you to know that I have no natural talent and so am highly unpredictable and totally at the mercy of inspiration.

Eli

My interest in all of this is how it will affect our growth more than the correctness of the translation. Although I don't like gender nuetral language and strongly agree that its use is incorrect in most cases and damaging to the integrity of the work I'm even more interested in seeing how the effects of such potentially politically motivated changes have upon the people. So far it has caused something of a groundswell of protest. I pray that the protest will result in growth for our Church.

Whether or not "the" Orthodox approve of this translation seems to be a mystery. Some have indicated that "they" have. Some have indicated that "they" have not. I hope our leaders are wise and get such approval or if they do not will state such and withdraw or modify the translation. Even more importantly this new recension seems to me to be an excellent occasion for pan Eastern Catholic cooperation. Is this recension in keeping with other Eastern Catholic particularly Byzantine Catholic recensions? Have scholars from these other Churches been part of the process? Can it be used as a way to bring some kind of cooperation among the Eastern Catholic Churches at least in America? If not, why not?

CDL

As for the book I suggested, last time I looked (which is a few years ago, I must admit) Eastern Christian Publications was selling them - again, specify the altar edition.

Didn't know I'd written any kind, mysterious words yesterday, but anyway I'm glad you enjoyed them!

Incognitus

If this seems like I'm a bit frustrated it's because I am. Perhaps everyone is. But how can there be so much debate over something we know so little about? Second, after two years why is so little known? Does no one know how this translation process took place? Does no one know if the other Eastern Catholic Churches have had any input into this? Does anyone really know who in Orthodoxy not in communion with Rome approves of this translation? Does anyone know why in the world this translation hasn't been widely disseminated if the eparchy is serious about it? Does anyone know why it was done in the first place?

CDL

Checked the entire catalogue without any luck at all, sad to say.

And your words were kind and encouraging me to more flights of fancy. I don't know if I can comply without completely falling out of character, or away from what is characteristic.

Eli

If this is the battle that must be fought in order that renewal begins then so be it. Let it begin in earnest.

CDL

Or in the opening line of Green Pastures, "Let the fish fry pro-ceed!"

Incognitus

Isaac, good points above. Charitable respect for profession, clergy, and vocation should always reign in these forums. We can have a dialogue in a professional manner - and at least that is finally starting to occur - without any personal attacks on this or that person.

To continue, what is really ironic is that I was given the proposed changes to the Latin-rite Mass text by our local Latin diocesan liturgy officer, who is a good friend. He didn't have to, but he did, as a courtesy to fellow Catholic clergy. He was instructed to share it with "all of the clergy" and he took that seriously, regardless of ritual Church. I was even asked for my comments, but declined as I do not celebrate as a Latin deacon.

I couldn't reciprocate with ours nor comment - as I myself have not seen anything officially submitted to clergy, even in a draft form from the hierarchy. It even seems now from another thread that what some on this Forum considered the "draft" is not the most current "draft", and apparently changes have already been made to the changes.

The simple logistics of getting the proposed Latin changes in the hands of so many is orders of magnitude, light-years of effort above and beyond getting it to at least a few clergy in our Church. No one including myself is reasonably advocating "liturgical democracy", but also something less shocking than a box in the mail with directions to use a new Liturgikon and text is likewise reasonable for those who will be charged with filial obediance to celebrate, use, and defend a new lex orandi.
FDD