www.byzcath.org Forums News & Events Church News The Celibacy Question Again

Hal that is very true. The difference is that other peoples parents and family needs were always more important than you and yours. And I know this is true of parents who work too much. But, again you are looking at families being placed over your family.

Like I said I am fine with it. But it is a real problem for many. Seems to me I remember Deacon Lance posting something on here to the effect of the amount of time that is being taken away from his family life. It is a ministry that has to be shared by the spouce for sure.

Pani Rose

Marya -

As best as I know - the mandatory celibacy was put in place because of a whole lot of corruption going on at that time. Married bishops were trying to obtain power and wealth for their married priest sons, and even to pass on their seats of power to them. The Pope saw mandatory celibacy as the best way to prevent the abuses.

There have been several interesting posts in this thread. While the Latin Church has, on limited occasion, accepted a married Anglican priest into its fold, I do not see married priests in the near future.

It seems to me that ordaining married men to the priesthood, to work as "helper" priests, but not to be pastors, might be a good start, in both East and West.

It seems to me that I remember reading about the Latins using "Mass priests" after the Black Death wiped out so many of the clergy. These mass priests could say mass only, and were not allowed to do anything else. But I don't remember whether or not they were single.

Thought that this would fit in nicely.

Irish Humour
A local parish priest had his bicycle stolen and thought that It might have been one of the parishioners.
He decided to call the bishop and ask him how he should approach them. The bishop replied, "At the next Mass give a sermon on the ten commandments, and when you get to thou shalt not steal look at their faces and see if anyone looks guilty."
A week later the bishop called the priest to see if anyone had returned his bike. The priest replied, As I was explaining the 10 commandments, when I got to thou shalt not commit adultery, I suddenly remembered where I left my bicycle"

"It seems to me that I remember reading about the Latins using "Mass priests" after the Black Death wiped out so many of the clergy. These mass priests could say mass only, and were not allowed to do anything else. But I don't remember whether or not they were single."
In certain periods (such as after the Black Death) and in parts of the medieval West, there was a "betwixt and between" arrangement. The kindest term for this would be "morganatic marriage" - the priest's wife was known and repected (she was commonly referred to as "Parson's Mary" or whatever her name was) but did not take her husband's honorific title, nor did the children have any rights of inheritance from their father. This arrangement persisted in villages much more than in the cities, and is the basis for the arrangement which still prevails in the Church of England and derived bodies.
Incognitus

Here's a look at one facet of the newly-ordained priests in the U.S. Latin Church today:

http://www.ewtn.com/vnews/getstory.asp?number=48655

Older, more educated, more diverse, and (gasp!) still celibate.

Amado

It is interesting to me that my father once confided that he had originally thought that he was called to the priesthood after he left the military. He was a devout Roman Catholic Irish boy who amassed an impressive collection of spiritual and theological writings and studied them throughout his life. But he also said, as such, he realized was called to be a husband and a father. A friend who was a priest helped him to see that. He explained that when he was in his early 20s, just having returned from the war (WW2 - he was a gunner in a bomber crew), he thought he'd seen enough of human ugliness for one lifetime. He always took comfort in religion. He had a special devotion to the blessed Mother and said the daily rosary throughout his lifetime. (I still carry his old rosary beads from his Army days. They are pretty beaten up from having been in a couple bails. Since he kept them that way, I kept them that way.) Indeed, I thought it appropriate that when he did die, it happened to be on the anniversary of Fatima and at exactly the appropriate time of day. Coincidentally, he was the same age the Blessed Mother was at the time of her Dormition according to tradtion. I'm not one of those people who looks for coincidence, but I know if he were still among us, he'd have liked those coincidence, since he was so very devoted to her.

Anyway, my dad was always fascinated by my mom's relatives, some of whom were married Orthodox priests. One of them was an officer and chaplain. Another was more of a parish priest. They did seem to have a lot to juggle. They relied very heavily on their wives to assist them with the more everyday, non-sarcamental, duties of a priest - like just being there when people have tragedies in their lives. A lot of what a priest does outside of the Mass or Divine Liturgy, really, is to listen and console.

It seems to me that to a married priest, the choice of mate is very important indeed. You have to marry a woman who is patient, compassionate, and who has simple expectations in life. Not easy in this modern world.

So I wonder if, in this modern world, it is more difficult even for some Orthodox priests. I know a young priest who, sadly, was divorced a few years ago. He had to hold down a regular day job to support his largely immigrant flock - the parish was not awash in funds and could not afford to house and feed him. His wife was accustomed to being more "central" in the social aspects of parish life, since that was how it was in the old country. She had to work for the first time in her life. They had no children and they parted ways. He was always exhausted - having to go to work and serve as a pastor. He remarked once that, having moved to America, he figured his Roman priest/friends had it easier - they couldn't fully comprehend his situation, although they were sympathetic. I don't think his situation is typical by any means, but I can see that there are pressures on a married priest - especially a young one - and that they are just different from the pressures on a celibate priest.

I think one reason some more liberal folks in the Roman church pick on celebacy is because it seems counter to a culture that tells you the opposite "sells." Being a Christian, really, has always been kind of counter to the popular culture. It's who we are, whether lay people or priests (married or unmarried).

I have a couple friends who are Roman Catholic priests. I feel for them, given the scandals of late. They are wonderful men who came to their calling in their late 20s and early 30s. One is an accomplished athlete and scholar in his prime - what I like is that he is always a priest, even when he's competing against us. He loves to talk about his order and his work. Another is an older Irish priest and fan of Aquinas who will likely retire soon. Seeing him retire, even after so many decades of service and even being so deserving of rest, is going to be hard. He is a true gem.

Annie,

Thank you so much for the story of your father and your thoughts regarding the difficulties of the priesthood for both those married and those not.

I agree that it takes a very dedicated woman to be married to a priest. I have a relative(actually my daughter's in-law) who is a Matuska married to an Orthodox priest.

Matuska is so supportive of him and good with interacting with the people, but she has always had to work in order for them to get by on what the small Antiochan Orthodox parishes could pay them.

Some years back they had to give up the parish where they were in one state. He resumed his old government job in another state, and now volunteers(without pay) on weekends in another parish. She is still working.

Presently our Byzantine parish has a retired married priest who assists our pastor. Father and his wife were originally Episcopalians who became Roman Catholics after he had served as an Anglican priest for many years. Now he is bi-ritual. She is definitely an asset to the parish and most supportive of him. We are blessed to have them with us.

Again, thanks for sharing about your Father and his high regard of the priests and that way of life. He comes from an era where the priesthood was highly regarded and respected and it was indeed a splendid call to enter the seminaries and pursue that life. So much more difficult now with what all that has transpired and the pressures of a popular culture which(as you so well point out) is counter to the life a priest must live(whether married or not).

In Christ and the Theotokos,


Mary Jo aka Porter....