www.byzcath.org Forums Faith & Christian Life Parish Life & Evangelization Jesus Christ

I would like to start a thread on how Byzantine Christianity gets along with Our Lord and Savior, Jesus Christ.

How do we speak of Him?

What is our language concerning Him?

How does a visitor to our parish recognize that He is important to us?

What are the vital roles does He play in our:
1. Liturgical Tradition?
2. Spirituality?
3. Theology?
4. Discipline?

How do we get fired up about Jesus Christ?

Is Jesus Christ still the epicenter of our church?

How does our Scriptures and Iconography convey His identity, reality, and relationship to us?

What do we share in common with our Latin Catholic brothers and sisters? our Protestant friends? our Bible Christians?

What is the sense of joy in Jesus Christ?

After visiting our communities and attending our liturgical services, what inspires our guests and friends to say, "Wow! Those Byzantine Catholics are really into Jesus!"

What is it that puts a smile on our faces regarding Jesus?

Do we go home after worship feeling brave, happy, jubilant, giddy, loving, inspired, touched, motivated, evangelical?

What would Byzantine Christianity be without Jesus Christ, Our Lord?

Just wondering,
Joe Thur

Dear Joe,

If you're looking for a single word answer, I've got it:

Holy Eucharist!

Stojgniev

P.S.: That's the Alpha & Omega of your question.

AMEN!

For starters the Lord Jesus Christ, Son of the Living God, is our ALL & ALL without Jesus we have no breath, no going or coming, he is our existance, without Christ we do not live.

Ok, ok. So maybe Jesus isn't really a hot topic compared to the role of the papacy, new liturgies and music, and our lack of identity saga.

Is this why we can't evangelize?

Joe

Joe,

I think that you ask an excellent question. I have heard various polemicists over the years say that the Latins have a Christological focus while we Byzantines are either more Pneumatological or Trinitarian - our relationship with Christ being somehow lost in a broader context. I think this is far too simplistic a view, IMHO, and contrary to the revealed Word of God in Sacred Scripture and our life of worship.

At the same time, I think it is good to look at how generations of accrued tradition correspond to the initial fervor of faith the first disciples had during and after the events related in the Gospels and Acts. There was an immediacy of the encounter with the Messiah that was fresh on their minds. They ate with Him, spoke to Him, walked with Him, touched Him, heard His teachings and watched His miracles. They also witnessed his cruel death, glorious appearances after His resurrection and witnessed the power of the Holy Spirit after the outpouring on the holy feast of Pentecost in Jerusalem. Given the distance of geography and time, the Church has always been challenged to maintain in the hearts and minds of the faithful the same sense of immediate contact with the reality and power of these events and, more importantly, with the Person of Jesus Christ. Efforts at renewal are always moments to recover the eternal freshness of the Gospel and its power in the lives of men and women. To me, any effort at either evangelization or renewal must become fully evangelical and recognize that Christ is truly in our midst!

My two cents,

Gordo, who aspires to be evangelical in heart, catholic in mind and orthodox in spirit

Dear Moderator,

I request that this thread be closed due to lack of interest in the topic.

Thank you Stojgniev, Pani Rose, and Gordo for trying. You are kind people who speak from the heart.

Kind regards,
Joe

Dear Joe,

Since the moderator hasn't closed the thread yet, may I ask, if anyone else felt that seventeen questions were a lot to cope with in one thread?

I found it quite daunting to even read all the questions, much less answering them.

Perhaps launching the questions one at a time, might be more productive?

Nick

Dear Joe,

I hear you and I agree. It IS all about Jesus.

But why do you want to close this thread so quickly when few have had a chance to read it?

I won't try nor am I able to answer all of your questions. Maybe just to simply say that to me Jesus is the question and Jesus is the answer.

More talk about Jesus would certainly behoove us all although if you check out the prayer threads you will certainly see His Name often and with such compassion on the part of those who agree to pray for others. God is love. Jesus is God...Therefore Jesus is love. Sometimes the love which others speak (with) is the true reflection of Jesus....

and Jesus said, "Love one another as I have loved you."

Remember St. Paul's words..."Christ in you...the hope of Glory."

Mary Jo....prayerfully...

Try to answer at least one of them. You wasted more typing on countering my style of begining a thread than replying about Jesus Christ. Just an observation of my own too. Your reply was the reciprocal of my questions.

Seventeen questions is NOTHING compared to what CAN BE said about Jesus Christ. Do you agree?

Personally, I am tired of sermons that begin with "I" and end with "me." I long for commentary and exposition on the Gospel, not a summary of one's personal week long experience.

I want to know if Jesus Christ is what or who its all about.

Joe

Mary Jo,

First, I like your name. It has "Jo" in it. My dear wife's name is JoAnn; another "Jo."

Second, usually if the thread's topic is about the role of the papacy, our Byzantine Catholic identity (problem), homosexuality, or liturgical reform (i.e., New Liturgy translation or the like), there would be at least a bizillion replies, counter arguments, quotes from the Fathers, a few clips from the CCC (Catechism of the Catholic Church), concerns about doing things in tandem with the Orthodox, personal ad hominem attacks, and a few quotes from St. Paratheosis Begamonino. The pages would number at least twenty-five or better (outdoing the ones on liturgical reform) and at least two or possibly three posters would have been warned about using inappropriate language and/or commentary.

But the topic of Jesus Christ ranks pretty low. THIS is why all this talk about Evangelism is a waste of time. ANY talk mostly deals with social or community issues, not the message of the Gospel. We love to talk about ourselves.

What exactly DOES Byzantine Catholicism have to say about Jesus Christ? The answer is quite obvious: NO-thing!

NO-thing!!!

Joe Thur

PS: Tell me something different. Tell me that this is THE thread that everyone is waiting for. Tell me that there are at least one hundred forum members busy typing up their replies and that we will be flooded so much with Jesus talk that the website will be shut down due to too much activity.

Lord Jesus Christ, Son of the Living God, you inhabit the praise of your people. If we truly desire to know you, then grant our hearts the grace to seek your face in praise and adoration. For that is your 'address', it is where your people live in praise and thanksgiving.

The Bible says that God inhabits in the praises of His people (Psalms 22:3). In other words, God dwells in the atmosphere of His praise. This means that praise is not merely a reaction from coming into His presence - Praise is a vehicle of faith which brings us into the presence and power of God! We do not talk about Jesus because too many think Jesus is all to often out of reach. Though we love him dearly, we fail to love him as our best friend. If you have a small child that child loves to see, hear, and feel your praise of something new he/she has done. An elderly parent takes time to make a craft for your home, they eagerly await a thankyou from you, or a kiss on their cheek with your smile. God is no different. Yet all we do is ask and complain.

So until we do as Scripture asks of us, "Enter into his gates with thanksgiving, and into his courts with praise: be thankful unto him, and bless his name" (Psalms 100:4). The desire to have his name continualy on our lips is not a reality. When we praise God, we become hungry for him. He stirs up in us an openess to him, that cannot be quenched except through the actions of the Holy Spirit in our lives drawing us ever closer into the love of the Triune God. We enter more completely into the their cycle of love. The gifts granted to us at Baptism and Chrismation are stirred up, we become hungry and cannot be satisfied. Nothing can quinch the hunger pains except to get before our Lord, whether it be walking down the street, at our icon cornors, or at Church doing the work of the people - the Divine Liturgy, we must be aware that we are forever in his presence.

Therefore, we must awaken to the fact that we are a people of the Resurrection. Why are we constantly walking around with our heads clasped in our hands going 'woh is me'? Why do we fail to walk about rejoicing saying what a mighty God we serve. There is no other god that took the form of man and dwelt among them to serve them, so that they may have life eternal with him. We are a chosen race, a royal priesthood, yet we fail to rejoice continously in the triumph of our Lord. We should be spending as much time in thanksgiving for what God has done for us as we do in petitioning him to do something. How selfish we are as children.

Praise and thanksgivng transports us into the realm of the supernatural and into the power of God. "Blessed is the people that know the joyful sound: they shall walk, O LORD, in the light of thy countenance" (Psalms 89:15). In living in him by the power of his Holy Spirit we are no longer timid and shy creatures, but happy children, saying, shouting - thank you Abba . It can only be done by his grace and our thanksgiving, willingness, openess to Jesus. "By him therefore let us offer the sacrifice of praise to God continually, that is, the fruit of our lips giving thanks to his name" (Hebrews 13:15).

This is what can happen if we will praise our God....

The story is told of an indoctrination meeting that was held in the Soviet Union before the fall of communism. The communist lecturer was addressing a large audience. He paused, then summed up his talk as the people listened fearfully: "In conclusion, there is no God. Jesus Christ never existed. There is no such thing as the Holy Spirit. The church is an oppressive institution, and anyway, the church is out of date. The future belongs to the state, and the state is in the hands of the Communist Party."

He was about to sit down, when an old Russian Orthodox priest, seated near the front, stood up. "May I say three words?" he asked.

The lecturer disdainfully gave him permission.

The old priest turned and looked over the crowd. He pulled himself to his full height and shouted,
"Christ is risen!"

There was a momentary pause, and then the crowd thundered back, "HE IS RISEN INDEED!"

WE ARE CHILDREN OF THE RESURECTION, LET HIS PRAISE BE CONTINUALY ON OUR LIPS, then we will see heaven move.

*panirose now gets off her soap box and puts it back under the desk*

But never tell me that Jesus does not matter, for you do not know my heart, only God alone does.

Pani Rose
1Corinthians 15:12-19
12 But if it is preached that Christ has been raised from the dead, how can some of you say that there is no resurrection of the dead? 13 If there is no resurrection of the dead, then not even Christ has been raised. 14 And if Christ has not been raised, our preaching is useless and so is your faith. 15 More than that, we are then found to be false witnesses about God, for we have testified about God that he raised Christ from the dead. But he did not raise him if in fact the dead are not raised. 16 For if the dead are not raised, then Christ has not been raised either. 17 And if Christ has not been raised, your faith is futile; you are still in your sins. 18 Then those also who have fallen asleep in Christ are lost. 19 If only for this life we have hope in Christ, we are to be pitied more than all men.

Dear Joe,

Yes: Jesus Christ is what Christianity is all about. Christianity is not a concept nor a philosophy nor a moral code nor a social movement nor western Buddhism nor anything else except a religion based on one man: Jesus of Nazareth.

So, the next question is *what* is He? Put another way, *why* is this one man --a Jewish carpenter who walked the earth 2000 years ago-- so important. To summarize all the Christological questions, I will say this: He is truly the Son of Man, in all ways but sin, and He is truly the Son of God. To paraphrase C.S. Lewis: He was either a liar, a lunatic or exactly what he claimed to be.

Hence, the Eastern Churches often have this to say to Him, every day, throughout the day:


"Lord Jesus Christ, Son of God, have mercy on me a sinner."


And, at least every week, they have this to say to Him too:


the Divine Liturgy of St. John Chrysostom [sspeterpaul.org]


And, especially at communion at Liturgy, but also at other times for spiritual communion, the Eastern Christians have this to say to Jesus Christ:



And the priest says quietly this, which the people can mentally add themselves:

Yes, in answer to your question: Jesus Christ --the Lamb of God-- is what it's all about.

And I know you already know that. It's just that we all need a reminder from time to time. You and others at this Forum have given that to me, often, thanks be to God. Here's some back at you.

--John

Joe,

I think your questions are well intentioned but a bit oddly put. "What is the role of Jesus?" is an impossible question. He is the author and finisher of our faith. There is nothing that He is not. Since I don't have the sad experience of hearing sermons that don't exalt Christ above all else your questions don't correspond with my experience.

I am very sad for those who have tolerated empty sermons. Father Loya says, "tear it to the ground" so the Lord can build His Church. If what you have experienced is fairly widespread and if what Maru asserts is true it ought indeed to be torn down.

Dan L

Thanks Joe. I have been here almost 1 1/2 years and have posted over 900 times. and...

I do agree with your estimation about how it goes with many threads. However, there are many others which perhaps it would be good for you to explore before you conclude that Jesus is missing among the Byzantines.

And also leaving a thread open only part of one day and on a weekend yet is not giving many an opportunity to answer. As you can see others have responded. Anyway, I find that most threads I start get about eight replies...especially if they are on scripture. This is disappointing but no reason to close the thread or conclude Byzantine Catholics are not interested in scripture. Actually more probably read it than reply at least I hope so.

BTW, my daughter's name is Joanna. And I am a Roman Catholic.

Happy Father's Day.

Mary Jo

P.S. If you think Jesus is missing among Byzantine Catholics...read Pani Rose's posts.
Rejoice, Christ is with us!

Dan,

Not odd at all. What can be worse is NO answer to ANY question about Jesus Christ, no matter how it was asked.

Joe