www.byzcath.org Forums Faith & Christian Life Parish Life & Evangelization Update: Eparchy of Parma Conference on Mission, Vision and Evangelization

Logistic details are coming. Any volunteers to help with the day?

I'm game.

Friends,

I tried to get on the chat room this evening but could not. I do have a couple of questions for John.

1. It is your understanding that all registrations go through Parma. Is that correct?

2. We will work through a tightened agenda of speakers with Father within the next couple of weeks. Is that your understanding?

3. We will have a pretty good idea of rooms available and large group/small group pieces very soon, right?

Gordo,

Are you familiar with the "nominal group" approach? It's a method I've used over the years to hammer out some very solid ideas and programs in rather short periods of time.

Dan L

Dan it was really weird that room has worked so good. Last night GCN broadcast some type of problem, but should have it fixed soon.

Also, inside the room you can create multiple rooms. This would allow different committees to work at the same time. Then come together in the main room for discussion. Just a thought.

Pani Rose

Nominal Group Technique is a very common form of brainstorming. I am familiar with it, although it can take different forms. PM and let me know what you are thinking.

Gordo

Alright the chat room is back up and running now.

Jason aka RomanRedneck is the one that set this room up. I think it will work well.
http://www.brimsjewelry.com/Setup_ChurchBulletin.exe

Hi Dan.

Glory to Jesus Christ!

1. Yes, it is my understanding that all registrations are via the chancery.

2. The agenda is completely Bishop John's call.

3. "We will have a pretty good idea of rooms available and large group/small group pieces very soon, right?" ... Yes.

In Christ,

John

So, this really ISN'T a lay initiative, but another top-down eparchial event. Brainstorming cannot happen if the agenda is completely in control. What if there are issues that need to be discussed that are not on the agenda? Sorry folks, this just seems like so many pastoral councils whereby the priest instructs the members that their word means something, but he doesn't have to accept it. This is not brainstorming. I don't like it. It seems to be another waste of time. The ol' shoeshine trick of snapping the towel to make it look like much is happening. Does this render the purpose of the pastoral advisory councils meaningless? The snap of the towel was heard regarding such councils, but ONLY after so many scandals, but nothing came of them. How many of you will continue posting on byzcath.org forums if the only topic allowed is vestments? Nice try.

Joe Thur

Joe,

Don't read between the lines too much. I know -- based on the history of our Church -- it's our natural inclination to be skeptical. And up to this point this approach has had plenty of merit. Things are different now. The iron is hot and it is time for the Byzantine Catholic Church to make a profound mark on the world. This conference is going to be very good for the church in general and Parma in particular. You'll see.

Bishop John has a group of laity helping organize the conference. Think of us as Bishop John's "Byzantine Brigade" if you will. The team includes John Gibson, Dan, Psuedo-Athanasius and we're going to recruit Gordo. There are others that don't post here. If you have actions and solutions to help the Church, please put them on the table. We need your thoughtful input.

The Bishop has called this conference to hear from his flock. This conference was born to embrace the "new evangelization" in a real, tangible way. It is about brainstorming and action. I expect that we will all have "assignments" as a result of this meeting. Think action, Joe!

When I wrote "The agenda is completely Bishop John's call" all I meant was the Bishop set the high-level agenda for the day. That's all. I also meant no single priest has the lock and key for the session content. Also, Fr. Thomas Loya is not the only Byzantine Catholic calling for a fresh, creative and visionary approach to the future. There are other clergy calling for this in all our eparchies and we know that the laity is ready too, right? What do you propose for the sessions? I hope to see the first part as listing the things we need to do for the church now, in three years, 10 years and beyond. The second part could be time spent brainstorming ways to make our vision a reality. Thoughts?

Again, no single person has a lock on the shape and scope of the day. That's the Holy Spirit's call!

Joe, what issues do you hope we discuss? I can think of a few. I'll bet solutions are closer than we think for many of our concerns. We might even be able to solve some problems immediately. Others will take time. But nothing is impossible in Christ.

In Christ,

John

Joe,

If you had been at our meeting with Bishop John I think you would have been surprised at how frankly we spoke. Yes, Bishop began with some trepidation. Bishops usually are born they are made. He has some self doubts and he expressed them. I thought that alone was refreshing. Nevertheless, during the meeting we saw him begin to take initiative after hearing us out.

I've been conned before, but I don't think this is a con job. I think he's willing to risk. I think he knows that this may well be our last chance to be more than a strange little cult on the American landscape virtually unknown by anyone. He plans only to welcome the people and then take his place as a participant.

There is evangelical method to the choice of location which will become apparent as time goes by.

I believe that the councils are a waste of time except as a way to keep some people occupied so they can't derail the real work of the Church. I pray I have spilled the beans concerning proper leadership strategy.

Look, some like the titles but don't like to get their hands dirty. Others love to get their hands dirty, get the work done, but aren't concerned about titles. My first preference would be to junk the entire list of councils and such. Then select two or three that are essential for ongoing standing of the Church. I gather that is why they call "standing" committees "Standing" committees. They are essential so that the Church can stand. But we don't need many of those. What we need is an activist bishop who raises up groups for a specific task and let's them do the task. It takes some faith to believe that this move is authentic given the history of most Churches, not just ours. But I believe and I'm willing to throw everything I have into it.

I know you've been burned by the standing committees who have no idea how to walk or even to move. I've been burned several times this way as well. But when an opportunity comes along like this I hope I have sense enough to grab onto it. After all, they don't come along all that often.

Compare and contrast methodologies of this movement with the excruiatingly long argument over a handful of words in the liturgy. It became apparent to me that those involved fully in that debate were of the standing committee mentality. Some of the principal actors in that rather surprised me but there you have it. We need a few such committees to keep the Church standing. Notice what happened when I suggested that they actually do something about their concerns. We read many excuses why nothing could be done. I hope some action is being taken but one wouldn't know it by looking at the board.

I'm not inclined to give much time to complaining without doing. In fact if you come expecting to complain to the August 6th meeting expect to get rather quickly shut down. I'll be the first to shut that person down if John, John, Fr. Tom, Pseudo-Athanasius, and others don't beat me to it.

What we need shut down is propping up parishes that won't function; sending resources to places that don't help people.

What will by the grace of God come alive are vocations that are truly alive; short term groups that actually accomplish something; house churches and mission stations; partnering of congregations; etc.

Dan L

Dan,

Pseudo-Athanasius was a lot better at explaining. I thank him for his patience and understanding.

I would never attend with plans to complain. Complaints only fall on deaf ears. You are confusing what is discussed here on these forums with what will be discussed at the August 6 meeting. Don't do that.

I pray for the success of your meeting on August 6. A lot of good people seem to be making things happen. This is a good thing for the Eparchy of Parma.

Good luck and God bless.

Joe

Dear Deadwood Dan,

This "economy of scale" business is not eastern and it does not attract people to the eastern Catholic tradition. They can get that anywhere else and better!! How do we compete in mega-parishes with the papal Church and the evengelical protestants? We can't afford to do that.

So what we can offer ARE in fact small parishes in out-of-the-way places of prayer and community where most of the real people in this nation still live.

That is if we can keep our Church Catholic and not succumb to its Protestatization and all of the anti-clericalism that is appurtenanced thereunto.

There are real good and sometimes even holy priests and people...in all of these parishes.

And I am keeping a copy of this note since you are prone to blowing the whistle on anyone who contradicts you or points out that your approach is hyper-Protestant.

Mary

Joe,

I'm sorry that my clumsy way of communicating sent the wrong message. I used the familiar "you" when I should have used the more general and formal "one". I mean that. I don't expect that you personally would be a complainer. I would expect though that some might think that this was a chance for them to derail another good effort. Pseudo-Athanasius is indeed a superior communicater and I tip my hat to him.

I do hope that you comment on the rest of my post which I think or hope is better phrased.

Again, I apologize for my clumsy remark.

Dan L

Maru,

And I do recognize your paranoia. Thanks for the reminder.

Dan L

I would agree with Dan in a situation, for instance, of 3 Byzantine parishes within 5 miles of each other, each containing 50 members. Consolidating those 3 churches into one would make for a stronger, more viable parish. It would also be a better use of the time and talents of our clergy. We do seem to have some problems that are not religious, but organizational and administrative.