www.byzcath.org Forums Faith & Christian Life Parish Life & Evangelization Why married priests won't solve the vocation shortage

I post this here because of the recent thread on parish closings.

Often I read people saying that having married priests again will solve our shortage of priests, or at least significantly ameliorate it. The same argument is made by our Roman brethren. I think the argument is wrong. (Note, I do fully support the return of married clergy to the Byzantine churches, but only because it is part of our tradition, not because it is a magic bullet to solve our woes.)

Would many more men decide to be priests if only they could be married? I think not. Consider the following:

1) If you are married with children, in order to be ordained you would have to move to Pittsburgh with your family and attend the seminary for at least four years, and probably six, unless you already have a philosophy degree. How will you support your family while you study? Will your wife work? What about your children?

2) Where will you live? When ordained, you make a promise of obedience to the bishop. That means you will live where he wants you to live, and move when he wants you to move. That's one thing for a single man, but quite another for a family. You and your wife and children may have to move far away from the grandparents and cousins, and may have to move again, leaving school and friends, whenever the bishop needs you to move.

3) How will you support your family? Priest salaries are very low, but perhaps sufficient for a single man who doesn't have to pay a mortgage. For a family it would put you below the poverty line. Are you willing to have your family live in poverty? Would you make up the difference by having your wife work? I don't think so. To be the wife of a priest and mother of his children is already a full-time job.

4) Now that you are living in poverty with your family, consider that you would be on call for your job 24 hours a day. There are other people on such a schedule, but they get paid enough to compensate them.

5) Do you want your children to have the pressure of being the "priest's kids?"

I could keep listing problems that married men have that celibate men do not, but I think you get the point. How many men would be willing to do this? Would you?

You may say "But all of these problems could be dealt with." I agree. But only through great faith, and that's the only solution to the vocation shortage. Married priests or no married priests, it will make no difference, until we are a people willing to give up all for God.

Be true Christians, and the priestly vocations will come. Continue lukewarm, and soon we won't have any priests, whether we make them be celibate or allow them to marry.

I think that quote is the point in a nutshell.

After all, the Protestants have had married clergy since their beginning 500 years ago. The Eastern Christians have had married clergy since their beginning 2000 years ago. Both ave had good periods with the clergy and bad periods of time, too, with their clergy. Likewise with the Roman Catholics. The quantity and quality of clergy dosn't depend on allowing marriage; it depends upon the love for Jesus Christ in their hearts.

Be well.

--John

Dear John,

You are correct.

Point in case: The Greek Orthodox church allows married priests, and in general is probably the best paying archdiocese around, (full benefits, parish help for securing loans and downpayments for clergy housing, and GOOD salaries relative to geographic area) YET--we have a shortage of priests!

The problem is a spiritual one, and I think that applies across the board.

In Christ,
Alice

P.S. This has nothing to do with the valid concern of Eastern Catholics about the age old tradition of allowing a married clergy. Since it is a tradition, it should be restored.

Pseudo-Athanasius,

Are you trying to say Pittsburgh is a second-rate town? Just kidding.

In fact, if you're already married, Pittsburgh is great. However, I think it would be worse for single men who have the option to marry before ordination in Pittsburgh. I've lived here for almost 10 years and haven't met many girls who would qualify for any "future Pani" status. But if you're looking for a girl who likes Iron City Light, is a die-hard Steelers fan, and will wake you up extra-early to make sure you've got the tailgate package ready to go, you're in the right place!

I think another factor is leadership, or lack of it. Some churches, and some dioceses within churches, have had a lack of effective leadership. That doesn't do anything for cultivating vocations.

Pseudo-Athanasius brings up many important points. But, I think that not everyone agrees on what giving up all for God means. Eastern Orthodox, Protestants, etc. all have married clergy. As far as I know, Rome is unique in its insistence on unmarried priests. Trying to encourage vocations to the priesthood while soft-peddling the unmarried part doesn't work for lots of guys.

I firmly agree with Pseudo-A. The problem is not with rules and regulations its with us as individuals. As Alice pointed out the Greek Orthodox Church has experienced a priestly shortage also and this cannot be attributed to being allowed to have a wife. Something is wrong with the Church in general and the disturbing number of annulment applications seems to indicate that quite clearly. The idea that being baptised is a call to holiness seems to be very far from the average believers mind.

What I find particularly disturbing is the decreasing numbers of applicats to the religious life. I dont know about the Eastern Church (indeed I am unsure about how the relationship between your monks, secular clergy both celibate and married works and I'd be pleased to be clued in) but in the West its amazing how many people have abandoned their orders. It seems to me that a growing number of people are less and less interested in giving up things for God and I think this is at the route of the problem.

Pseudo-Athanasius:

Glory to Jesus Christ!

Your points are very well presented! I found your comments on the laity being lukewarm especially true in our parish's case, however, that is changing.

We are rekindling the faith through adult education. Our priest, Father Sid Sidor (a late vocation, widower, ordained in June 2004, 76 years old, and former GM/Rockwell executive)is teaching subjects like healing, tithing, the soul, and the Philokalia (workshops on how to say silent prayer) have people fascinated in our parish. Participation has now spilled to outside the parish and even beyond Catholicism to include a variety of Orthodox and Protestants.

Concerning the revival of a married clergy, there are late vocations that have not been ordained, why not? They like our Father Sid have so much to offer and indeed many of those are married.

The Eastern Church has so much to offer! Yet, our people are ignorant because it isn't being taught. Why don't we focus on getting our people back up to speed on the faith so we can spread it by using all our resources!

All the best in Christ,

Scott

No one would want to work under a lame duck who is as inspiring as watching grass grow. Too much risk when the top dogs don't know which way to go or which end is up.

Regarding married priets or no married priests: the alternate is to demand celibacy wholesale and get what comes to you who is willing to take on the burden of celibacy. But you also risk shortchanging yourself by turning away vocations that can assist in some way. Gambling on retired vocations or only those married ones who have a spouse that can financially support his ministry or even the possibility of accepting those who belong to the lavander mafia is risky business. I remember once back in my seminary days a man who was an open homosexual and was later ordained even thought the student body protested (they later got reprimanded for not supporting their brother classmate); then one guy got caught with a woman in his room and was given three days to get lost. What is wrong with this picture? Both were in the wrong, but the leaders that be decided to place their bets with the former, not that latter.

The Lincoln RC Diocese and others experiencing vocation growth all mention one main factor: ORTHODOXY. No one wants to take on any burdens (celibacy, cut in pay, etc) if the product doesn't match what the marketing department is promoting; or a church that has to ask permission from a foreign embassy to operate their church; or an organization that is STILL having an identity problem.

Joe Thur

PS: the seminary I speak of was NOT the one in Pittsburgh.

Or, you could move your family down to Wash, DC. Archbishop Stevan remodeled St. Josaphat's (Ukranian) to accommadate married men and their families. We now have 6 celibate men studying there. I hope they don't think that they can get married before they are ordained, and find out that they can't.

" . . . giving up things for God . . ."

Myles:

Perhaps the key to the problem is that this type of thinking has no appeal to the present generation. It is a negative approach.

We haven't taken the positive approach and told young men what tremendous joy there is in having a relationship with Christ and living it out in serving His People.

Unfortunately, this positive approach has to spring from a deep spirituality that is prayed and lived by everyone in the parish. It is in parishes where vocations are recognized and nurtured. Unfortunately, too, this sort of deep spirituality is sadly lacking in the Latin Church--at least in the U.S. People are spiritually starving but the best that they are offered is New Age borrowings from Hinduism and Buddhism.

People who are experts on the inroads made by the New Age movement in the Latin Church even go so far as to say that our religious orders have been ruined by this veneered Eastern paganism in their spirituality, beginning after VII.

These problems are all linked: vocation shortage, spiritual poverty and New Age borrowings, and the constant bickering in the Church about each and every subject that comes along. We have many young people who are very generous in giving of themselves, their time, and their treasure. But few want to be in a situation where they have little time to themselves, no respect from the bishops, and little positive to attract and keep them. So many have their spirituality and zeal destroyed in the current environment.

In my own area, there is no interest in second vocations past a certain age. I suspect that that is because second vocations yield men who are wiser and cannot be easily molded--they don't take everything at face; they question.

In Christ,

BOB

As a married clergyman I am posting on this thread at the request of a fellow member of this forum.

I have always found the concept of a marriage v. celibacy to be a fascinating one. While understanding Paul's comments in the Bible in praise of remaining single, I do think that there are benefits to a married clergy.

A lot of the concerns expressed in the OP are answered by the last paragraph in the OP that I quoted above. Great faith is the only solution and all of our churches and parishes will continue in decline until we see the importance to "give all up for God."

As a married clergyman, with a dedicated wife and six children who love the Lord we do know what it means to "give all up for God." We do have to make financial sacrifices and often have to "do without" what others may consider "needs." Separation from family and friends is difficult. My dear mother-in-law is missing watching her grandchildren grow and my wife has the challange of mothering without her mother close by. My children are "pastor's kids" but that is not always a bad label. They live among other kids, they just know when to take a stand for the Lord and their friends respect that. At work two of my sons are called "Son of the preacher man," but it is all in fun and they are highly regarded.

I can see the flexibility in being single. I do think there are pressures and difficulties that come with having a family in the ministry.

Saying that, having a family creates a ministry team that multiplies our efforts for the Lord. My wife and kids will have outreach that I will never have. My wife can give me insight as a woman that I will never have.

All these are issues to be weighed out in considering a married clergy.

I do however think it owuld be wrong to make a change purely for pragmatic reasons. Pragmatism may seem to work, and it may for a while, but as the poster mentioned - the key to a succesful ministry is that the minister be totally sold out to the Lord.

Please accept my usual disclaimer for those who do not know me. This is your board and I am honoured to be permitted to post here. I simply express my views without any criticism of your churches. I apologise if anything posted here seems to be critical, that is not my heart.

Berean You are free to post your opinions here, and you certainly haven't offended me. I tend to agree with much of what you are saying. I am not so concerned with whether or not our priests are married. My concerns with any priest are: is he holy, is he totally in love with God, does he hold orthodox beliefs consistent with tradition, does he live what he preaches, and is he a man of good character. These are the things that are important to me.

I agree with a great deal of your thoughts in that statement.

Charles,

Pastor Roger is posting on this thread at my request. I knew he has been one of our posters until recently. And I thought of him because he does have a family and wife. I thought the imput of his experience would be helpful.

I am sure as that he agrees with the need to be Godly as a pastor or as a priest whether one is married or not. And I sure agree with all the things you mention as well. They apply to all of us. Lord have mercy as we fall short.

Bless your day,

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Pastor Roger,

Thanks so much for your post and P.M. reply to me. You are most kind and cordial. Thanks for sharing that it is Mother's Day there today in Ireland. Most of us here probably didn't know that.

Mary Jo