www.byzcath.org Forums Faith & Christian Life Parish Life & Evangelization Why married priests won't solve the vocation shortage

Dear Pastor, I agree completely. Celibacy is indeed a precious gem, but ONLY when it is freely chosen because a man or woman feels a special call from the Lord to it. Ordinarily, most men and women would prefer to be married and enter into the intimacy of a relationship with someone of the opposite sex. What an incredible example a married clergyman and his family can be in a community and what a support and example a wife can be to her clergyman-husband when their life is lived in union with the Lord as they minister to a parish!

Your brother in Christ,
+Gregory, priestmonk

Thank you for your kind words, I enjoy my occasional visit in here.

Going to head down now and dig into the leftovers from the Mother/Daughter Tea my wife hosted in preparation for Mothers's Day tomorrow .

Alice, you, as the old commercial used to say "said it all".

When even a diocese that accepts married men, pays them well, usually gives them a nice rectory, etc. it is indeed indicative of a larger spiritual problem.

It goes back to the family. Vocations come from families, and if the domestic church is not in order nothing outside of it will be in order.

Orthodox, Catholic, we are all in the midst of a much deeper spiritual morasse.

Father Gregory is right on the money. In the East we have had an organic and familial relationship between celibate (especially monastic) and married parish clergy. Celibacy has to be freely chosen for the Kingdom, and not a rote obligation.

Back to the RC observations - I've noticed there seems to also be a definite geographic component to the RC revitalization if you put them all on a map. Denver, Lincoln, Omaha, more recently Kansas City, Kansas and Tulsa, Oklahoma (Tulsa interstingly has several married former Protestant ministers working in RC parishes as priests) are all up and coming in terms of vocations.

In Denver a defunct and disbanded seminary was restarted by Archbishop Chaput and now receives seminarians from outside the Archdiocese who want to work there. He accepted a married former OCA priest to work as both a Russian Catholic and RC pastor.

We had a young priest in our diocese that was awesome. He was a year older than me. He related to the kids and the elderly. He spent time with a family member during a great need. He was our chaplain in one of our societies. He was always fun, nice, and made you want to come to church. He was a ball of energy that radiated his love for Christ.
But, he got bitten by the woman bug and left to get married.. a sad day indeed. I don't know the whole story. But let's say.. for a minute, if he had a relationship with this girl before he got ordained and could have got married, WE'D STILL HAVE A YOUNG AND GOD-LOVING PRIEST!!!
So in some ways his flock suffered because the strict RCC celibacy rule.
It isn't often around here we get young priests that can identify with the youth (very important and an area that needs great growth in our diocese). When we do finally get a priest that can identify with the youth, bring people back to church, we had to loose him.

Alleghenymountains I understand what you're saying and its sad you lost your priest. However, this sad event is not the fault of the Church. There isnt anybody in the Western world who does not know that being a Roman Catholic priest means being celibate. Apart from the fact we have a Pope and worship Jesus Christ its probably the most well known fact about Roman Catholicism.

The choices we have to make sometimes are hard, very hard, God doesnt make it easy and nor should we expect Him too. He's trying to bring us into the peace of loving only His will so that we'll be free from the transient pleasures of the world. What you've said is not an isolated incident but I dont think its the root issue. Men spend at least 4 years in Seminary that time is not merely for education but discernment. If we have a thorn God's grace is sufficient.

I feel sorry for this man because he must've felt torn but I believe that if he had a vocation, if he had asked Jesus for help Our Lord would've given it. I believe this because God gives each man the grace he needs to overcome and thus I must conclude either he didnt ask or he didnt want it, or was never called to the ministry in the first place.

If a man is close to God he can live his vocation and moreover I think it is a thing unheard of that a really holy person ever had trouble touching the hearts of anyone: young or old. The fact that many cannot touch the hearts of the youth today well...as I said in an earlier post. It reflects on the Christians, doesnt it?

It may be worth remembering that there are small t traditions as well as large T traditions within the Churches. Eastern Orthodox do not believe that celibacy is a big T tradition for acceptable candidates for the priesthood. A candidate can be married only once, however, to a trinitarian christian. There was even a loophole observed where 2 non-christians married, then divorced, and the man converted to Orthodoxy, married, then became a priest. Such is the intricate nature of canon law in various jurisdictions.

It is possible that the papacy will eventually change its mind about ordaining marrieds, and that Eastern Catholic hierarchs will be more forthright in their restoration of married clergy as part of their tradition, but there is no timetable. In any case the decline in vocations is not caused by this issue alone. I pray that the Church will revisit impediments to vocations in our time, and work on overcoming those impediments.

Dear Myles,

But the fact is that Anglican and Lutheran and other married Protestant clergy who convert to RCism and wish to become RC priests CAN get the requisite permission and get ordained as MARRIED RC priests.

We Byzantine Catholics are often told that RC's have their traditions while we have ours with respect to married priests, these are separate yet both are respected, etc.

In fact, that has never been the case in North America - the RC Church has been very strongly opposed to having married BC priests here because of the problem of "rumblings" from its own celibate clergy with respect to "If they can get married, why can't we?"

In fact, priestly celibacy has fallen on hard times in the RC church. Priestly defections to get married, fewer and fewer vocations, the POPULAR association of celibacy with abusivenss in some priests and the like have ravaged the celibate ranks.

The RC hierarchy has tried to maintain the status quo by introducing a greater role for married deacons, extra-eucharistic ministers and even the ordination of formerly Protestant married ministers as priests.

Perhaps a married priesthood is not the total answer.

But I defy anyone to maintain that it isn't part of the answer.

Mandatory priestly celibacy is a man-made church tradition.

It can be cancelled tomorrow with the stroke of a papal pen.

That doesn't mean that celibate priests will disappear.

It means that priestly vocations, in the RC Church, will no longer be so closely tied to vocations to celibacy.

The two are separate as the experience of the Eastern Churches bears out - and as Rome's acceptance of married Protestant clergy as Catholic priests (they're "invincibly ignorant" after all!) does also.

Alex

Correct me if I am wrong. I've heard/read through the years that married priests in the RC existed until around 1200 A.D. Then the Vatican mandated celibacy to correct some problems in the priesthood. Also, I've read there have been married Popes. So, if this is true that Roman Catholic priests (well, the term Roman is a later termnology)... ok, Latin priests were allowed to marry and the church changed it, it can be changed again.
I am not arguing against current practices, rather, I am just bringing up Church history. The focus of my post is Church history.
It is sad about the priest I know. He did know what he was getting into, I will agree with that. I was throwing out a "what if." I won't judge the man, wherever he is, I hope he is doing well and loving life.

Dear 'alleghenymountains',

The only sad thing about the priest you mentioned is that in the RC church, if I am not mistaken, 'once a priest always a priest'.

As much as he may now be loving life and loving his wife, he is still a priest...and it is not to be entered into, discarded, or taken lightly. The great St. John Chrysostom said, 'the roads of hell are paved with the skulls of priests and bishops'...

We should pray for priests who leave their vocations. I do not dare to put myself in a position to judge, but according to the Church both east and west, it seems like his spiritual and ecclesial existence may be in limbo.

Did you ever read about the homeless bum hanging out on the doorsteps of a church in Rome? A former classmate from seminary who was at a conference in Rome to meet with the Pope, recognized him. Somehow it troubled the American visiting priest so much that he managed to share it with the Pope. The Pope asked him to bring the bum to him. The Pope brought both men to a room, and then asked the visiting American to leave. He then proceeded to ask the homeless former priest to hear his confession. In turn, the homeless former priest also made a confession to the Pope....

This true story about Pope John Paul II exemplifies the church's position: once a priest, always a priest.

In Christ,
Alice

I wonder what happened to the homeless priest.
This priest wasn't my parish priest, he was an assistant pastor of a large parish nearby. He was our chaplain for our one men's Catholic society. I hadn't seen him around for a while, common for some chaplains not to come to every meeting as they are busy. Then I asked and was told he left and got married.
I wonder about him, how he is, where he's at and how he is doing.

The Roman Church didn't declare celibacy a law until the Fourth Lateran Council, which was 1215. However, the bishops were against a married clergy since at least the 3rd century -- St. Paphnutius had to go to bat for the married clergy at the Council of Nicea (that's why he's the patron saint of married priests, I think).

Also, just to add my own 2 cents. I grew up Roman Catholic and attended RC seminary even. I personally don't think it's fair that Protestant clergy can be admitted to the Presbyterate, even if they're married. I've speculated that I guess I'd be good to go if I became Anglican, got married, had some kids, became an Anglican Priest somewhere in there, then decided to seek union with Rome. But if I stayed a faithful Roman Catholic, I couldn't get married and study for the Presbyterate. It's just not fair to Latin Rite men.

My Dear 'alleghenymoutains' I suggest that you dedicate some daily prayers to this priest from your parish. Even if he never returns to priestly ministry, you must know by faith...that your prayers will perhaps assist him on the path to salvation. Possible prayer for him:

MY DAILY PRAYER FOR PRIESTS

O almighty eternal God, look upon the face of your Christ and for the love of him who is the eternal high priest, have pity on your priests. Stir up in them the grace of their vocation which is in them by the imposition of the bishop's hands. Keep them close to you, lest the enemy prevail against them, so that they may never do anything in the slightest degree unworthy of their sublime vocation.

O Jesus, I pray for your faithful and fervent priests, for your unfaithful and tepid priests, for your priests laboring at home, or abroad in distant mission fields, for your tempt�ed priests, for your lonely and desolate priests, for your young priests, for your aged priests, for your sick priests, for your dying priests, for the souls of your priests in purgatory.

But above all I commend to you the priests dearest to me: the priest who baptized me, the priests who absolved me from my sins, the priests at whose Masses I attended, and who gave me your body and blood in holy communion, the priests who taught me and instructed me or helped me and encouraged me, all the priests to whom I am indebted in any other way, particularly for Father__________.

O Jesus, keep them all close to your heart, and bless them abundantly in time and in eternity. Amen. O Mary, 'Queen of the Clergy' pray unto God for Father_________ and for his salvation!

In His great mercy,
+Fr. Gregory

P.S. True story to share: In 1969 when I was a Franciscan, I had a superior (a priestmonk) who was VERY hard on me. Years later I heard that he left and married a former nun. I began to pray for him daily. Five years ago, after 25 years of marriage, I heard that he got a divorce and returned to his priestly ministry. I wrote to him in Long Island, NY and we settled our former difficulties and made our peace with one another. Today here is serving a parish in NY. All glory and praise to God Who wishes only that all mankind be saved!

In Him,
+Fr. Gregory

Dear 'alleghenymountains',

I will answer your question...(I didn't want to make the above post too long).

The homeless ex-priest from America was assigned, by Pope John Paul II himself, a position in the very church in Rome on whose steps he used to beg and hang out on!

(I can't remember the name of the church, but I remember thinking that I had been there...I believe it was the one on the Piazza de Pupolo.)

In Christ,
Alice

P.S. Dear Father Gregory, The prayer for priests was very nice. I think that we should all add that to our prayer rule. I always liked that the RC have these prayers and intentions for priests...I don't know if we have anything like this in the Orthodox tradition/not that we don't need it just as much.

Dear Father Gregory,

Perhaps the Administrator will allow the prayer for priests which you shared with us to be permanently installed in the Prayer section for our convenience and reflection?

In Christ,
Alice