www.byzcath.org Forums Faith & Christian Life Parish Life & Evangelization Where have all the children gone?

Alice, yes, indeed I can see where you are coming from. And this sort of thing is not limited to Greeks. Ukrainians and others Slavs of the "DP generation" had their enclaves in the camps, came to this country and continued to live often in their generally insular ethnic communities. They sent the kids to Ukrainian school, had the immediate community and clergy within walking distance, etc.

Now the second and third generations of those no longer have that connection and village-centered life. Their parents didn't know how to cope with them leaving the nest or what to do to help them keep the faith.

We've got to make it a team effort with the parents and the kids now to bring it to the home - as without the domestic basis it will not happen.
FDD

There are many very good points on this thread, and this topic is one of the most important ones raised in some time.

In addtion to what has already been posted here (and I especially agree with what Fr. Anthony said), I would say this:

Sometimes, there are not any Eastern Catholic partishes to attend. In my parish, the times have changed since the parish was founded. Where there was once plenty of economic opprtunity, there is now little opportunity. So, the kids grow up and move away to places where there is opportunity. However, there isn't always an Eastern Catholic parish in those places that people move to. And, the EC's who moved there might be the only ECs in the area -- so they can't easily start a parish. Yes, there are some ECs who will travel 100 miles or more to attend Divine Liturgy, but others won't or can't. So, many of them migrate to the Roman Catholic Church: which has a parish almost everywhere in the U.S. and whose sacraments "count" for an EC. In sum, part of the problem is simply a lack of enough Eastern Catholic parishes.

That said, I want to comment on this astute post by Michele:

AMEN ! Call me naive, but I prefer "optimistic realist." There is something of real value to Eastern Catholicism. It is the Gospel with a substantial mystical emphasis that, in turn, cultivates the experience of the Holy Spirit in everyday life. *That* has real appeal to many in this increasingly secularist age.

I'm not sure if there is a single answer to this problem. But I suspect, in sum, that holiness --theosis-- is the key. If we become more transparent windows / icons to God, in and outside of the home, people will be attracted to stay or to join us: because people will see in us that God is good and He loves mankind.

Just my 2 cents worth of thoughts.

-- John

John,

You kind of jumped towards where I was heading in this thread. My personal feeling is that when children are well grounded in the faith in church and at home, and have developed that spiritual confidence, they will when they move from home into areas without a church become the spark that will lead to creation of a new church.

If the faith has become an important factor in their lives, they will seek to have that with them wherever they are. In our mobile society, seldomly do we encounter that we are truly alone in our faith expression. It may take some effort, but if one truly desires it one can find others of our faith expression. It happens time and time again.

But none of this can happen without first having the team effort of family and church working in concord to help nurture and mature the faith of our youth.

Just a thought.

In IC XC,
Father Anthony+

Maybe that's true in some cases but then how does this explain why virtually all who leave go the RCs and not to the Orthodox?

CDL

Dan,

Could it be because there are more RC Churches than Orthodox ones in some areas ?

Also if they go RC there are no problems about reception of the Sacraments.

Also if they register as RCs then they have access to the RC Schools.

Just a thought as to the reasons

We are at or are very close to the point of no return. That is something we as a church will have to come to terms with very soon.

-uc

But of course - so the question is HOW can we actually DO something.

It has to be a joint effort

We have serveral Ukrainian families that came to this country 10-15 years ago. Most of the young adults, that grew up in this country, do not attend church regularly. They come for Easter and Christmas. One young lady returned to Ukraine, married and she and her husband and baby are active members of the parish. It appears to me that once they come to this country, the Ukrainian parents dont see how detrimental being immersed in the culture is for their children and they become less interested in the faith. All these young adults are lovely people, very successful, we just dont see them very much. One mother told me she didnt know what to use to teach the faith when they arrived here. It is very sad. We have taken steps to help them and I am hopeful that the younger siblings of these young adults will not be lost.
But,on the other hand, the majority of folks who attend our parish are NOT Ukrainian. I am constantly saddened by the lack of attendance at Divine Liturgy on Feast Days.

We have had an excellent priest for the last few years. But if folks dont listen and follow his good example, well, what more can he do?

Also, I am absolutely opposed to the movement that I hear that we need to somehow make church more relevant to the youth's lives. They need to be introduced to the idea that their life needs to be relevant to their relationship with God.

Also, the fact that people are not having many children really cannot be discounted. The majority of the children in our parish come from just a few families. If parents have only 1 or 2 children, the prospect of giving one to the church(ie encouraging vocations) is much more foreign.

Is Fr. Janowich still up there at Nativity?

-uc

The more authentically Eastern Christian we are the more likely we will grow. The Domestic Church is part of that. Standing as the standard way of prayer and worship is part of that. An authentically Eastern liturgy is part of it. We see it at Annunciation and we are seeing it more and more at St. Mary's in Whiting, Indiana. Will we come back to integrity in time? I don't know.

And that's the way it is.

CDL

Amen. Actually the opposite is true. If we want them to engage in and partake of the transfigured life possible through Christ, that has to happen above the level of modern, often banal, cultural influences.

It is the solid reality, the transcendent, the beautiful, that will attract them and get them to love their Faith.

Your previous point is also true. We have long ago passed the point of "ethnic maintenance" of this or that community with dwindling numbers both due to the death of the older ones and the younger ones leaving. Christ certainly transcends enclaves. We must be attentive to the needs and concerns of those folks, to be sure - but our missionary concerns don't stop at an ethnic fence.

But without the beginnings and reinforcement at home, in the domestic church, gathered around the icons with the encouragement and love of the parents united in faith, it is an uphill battle at best. That is reality.
FDD

Fr Richard is still at Nativity. Great priest!

I am in Portland, however. We are a Ruthenian parish, but we have seven or eight families of Ukrainian immigrants.

We are right now in a situation where there is some division as to whether the way to grow our parish is to add more slavonic, even though the majority of the parish would prefer that we not add more, and I have asked around (asking the priests themselves) and I find that we currently use more slavonic in our Liturgy than any other parish in the Van Nuys Eparchy.

I am against it(adding more) precisely because those that are most favor of it seem to be looking for a nostalgia experience and not looking to the needs of the children of the parish and their education/understanding of what we are doing. These same folks never come for a Feast Day Divine Liturgy or PreSanctified.

I am not talking here about our dear Ukrainian Grandma. I absolutely am in favor of doing some slavonic, just in deference to her, but we have had a mad rush to add more. The children in our parish that are "ethnic" number a whopping 12, the other 25 + are English speaking only.

I suppose that is why this thread caught my interest.

I have been at the office for most of the day and I have to admit it was a productive one. I just got in and looked at the past few posts, especially the ones Mrs Walsh wrote. My personal feeling and I believe many would support it is that our tradition and liturgy is timeless. You will always will have differences as far as language goes, and some accomodation can be worked out in this regard, but we have to remember you will never have complete satisfaction with that.

Making changes or innovations to attract the youth is a bewildering concept. Prayer is to address God, not to entertain the one offering it. Our prayer (the Divine Liturgy) in public worship follows a pattern that is meant to pray, learn (the lections) and then to offer and receive the mysteries, followed by thanksgiving. This is a simplified explanation of the liturgy. When faithful do not understand what is prayer, the sacraments, and worship, you leave yourself open to innovation. This not only reflects poorly on the youth that do not understand these concepts of the faith, but also the adults that are willing to accomodate it because they have not done their job in transmitting the faith, maybe because of their own ignorance or lack of understanding. This requires the clergy to educate not only at the crisis of accomodation, but as an ongoing part of their ministry.

Education is a function that must be done at both the church and at home. In order to help the parents or even grandparents, I must ask when was the last time they picked up a book explaining anything regarding the faith? Many will be afraid or avoid answering this question, because they haven't. Instead they will lobby for innovation and acomodation because they are truly ignorant of the gift they possess.

In order to teach our children, we must first teach ourselves. When we are informed we can make a difference that can change lives, especially for our young souls that we yearn to see become adult followers of Christ. We can teach, we can mentor, and we can make a difference that will pay off in the dividend of helping expand the flock of the Good Shepherd, Jesus Christ.

Much is taught in church in the Divine Services, but like anything learned in must be internalized outside of the context of the services in everyday life. That requires us to live the life we learn about. It requires follow up study and further practicum.

As I stated in an earlier post, faith is a cooperative effort not only on the part of the church, but also on the part of the family. If we can mobilize these efforts into sync, we not have to ask the question "Where have all the children gone?" but rather "How can we accomodate the growth we are experiencing?"

Let us not get bogged down with external inanimate things like pews, or who produces what books, but let us instead start the search and acquisition of the resources we need to better ourselves and our youth. Then as we learn, digest, and put into practice our faith, things will start an upward trend.

A final suggestion of my part, if your parish does not have a bookstore or even book table, that should be one of the necessary changes that should be made right away. Books that will teach you and your family are important. I can think of many a book I purchased before seminary that was a great help in my formation as a Christian and helped me to better understand and live my faith. Who knows what book is out there that can help you also, but if the internet and all the online book services are intimdating, then get your parish or mission to stock some books for sale.

Just some thoughts on my part.

In IC XC,
Father Anthony+

Indeed. Anhelyna has hit the nail on the head.

And I think Fr. Anthony has the best pragmatic idea: Revive the domestic church. We need to remind parents that faith begins at home. Then we have to give familes practical ways to live the faith at home.

How to get the message accross? The pastor could give a sermon (or two or more . . . ) But, there should also be some kind of lay group to inculcate these kinds of things and to pass down wisdom and traditions from one generation to another. (In my former Latin Rite parish, such a group was the Rosary Altar Society). Maybe there could even be a lecture on it at parish Sunday school, or as part of a retreat, etc. And, of course, it should be the topic of an insert in the parish weekly bulletin at least once per quarter (once every three months).

Here are a few ideas for reviving and maintaining the domestic church:

-- overall: keeping the Gospel in morals, faith and daily life.

-- eating at least one meal together as a family (probably supper) and saying grace at that meal.

-- parents going to Divine Liturgy on Sundays and feast days, and taking their kids with them.

-- parents blessing their children every night before bed and every day before they leave.

-- the icon corner: making one, keeping one, praying at it.

-- some kind of religious study as a family: Scripture, lives of saints, theology (Light for Life books, etc.).

-- getting and reading the eparchial newspaper.

-- practicing some kind of fasting together as a family.

-- overall, keeping and living the Tradition.

There is a really good book out that describes these things and more. It is entitled "A Guide for the Domestic Church." It is available from Theologcial Book Service at http://www.theobooks.org/index.asp?PageAction=VIEWPROD&ProdID=809. Personally, I think every Byzantine parish should get a copy. It should be given to every couple getting married, having a baptism, or joining the parish. It is a real textbook for living the Gospel at home in an Eastern Catholic way, and it is written in a style that everyone can understand.

-- John

John,

I speak from experience and expertise in the matters I describe. My department (in which I am the program coordinator) has a website that has some of the materials you mentioned, plus others we are awaiting to put up while they are in final editorial review. I am working with these questions and with others by working out possible solutions on a daily basis.

The website for those interested is Family as Church [familyaschurch.org]

I would like to see this thread progress a little though from the point of education to that of praxis, teaching how to put faith into action, thus engaging our youth in a Life in Christ. I pray that we can progress into that stage now.

I leave that for discussion.

In IC XC,
Father Anthony+