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I think we are all pretty much in agreement on the occult. But I have seen televangelists have what they call "words of knowledge" which reveal to them things about people that they couldn't possibly know. Now where is that stuff coming from? I remember mentioning to a friend that God might answer my prayers if He were not so busy telling trivia to Pat Robertson.
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Dear ByzanTN,

Actually, Pat Robertson is not a televangelist. He does not get paid for what he does, but rather the other way around...he gives his money to the program and to his charities. He was the founder of the Family Channel many years ago, and so he is a very wealthy man.

He is the son of a Senator, is an investment broker that graduated from Yale, and also has a doctorate in theology, as well as an author of many, many books. He was also the founder of the graduate law school Regent University, the ACLJ, Operation Blessing that provides food to the poor, the founder of the Christian Coalition, etc., etc., etc.

When he decided to turn to God, he lived in the black area of Bedford Styvinson in Brooklyn, with the cockroaches and his wife and children. Frankly, I adore him, and I'm a little tired of people that dislike him and denigrate him because he refuses to accept that homosexuality is not sinful.

He has always tried to edify others in everything he says, and not once in all the years that I have watched his show, have I ever heard him say anything that would denigrate or diminish other Christian faiths. Besides, I can hear the news that can't be heard on our 'liberal' media.

As for the 'Word of Knowledge', it is when he and a few 'pure' souls (doesn't work for everyone), start praying, and begin to mention that a certain person has an ailment that will be cured.

You have to realize, no-one has a monopoly on how our Lord should perform 'His' miracles. If He wants to have us come closer to Him, by going to Lourdes, etc., or by having Pat Robertson giving his Words of Knowledge, then so be it. The fruits are the same.

Zenovia

Of course, I was kidding about the word of knowledge, since it fit in the few threads preceding mine. But we will have to agree to disagree somewhat about Robertson. He does hold conservative positions on issues, and believe it or not, sometimes I even agree with him. His finances are so entwined with his church operations, I am a bit leery. I do remember him getting some flack from the IRS for using an Operation Blessing plane to do some work on some diamond mines in Africa in which he had an interest. He has many publications to his credit, but one of his former employees testified he was the ghost writer on one of Robertson's books, and even had difficulty getting Robertson to read his "own" book. So I have mixed feelings about him.

Dear Byztn,

Don't believe those that try to discredit him. They have been trying so hard for the past twenty five years, that had he been anyone else, they would have had volumes on him.

Strangely enough, whenever they start full force, it ends up backfiring on them.

It's a pity he's so humble, I would just love to know exactly how much he gives to various charities. I remember him once saying he had farms in Africa to feed the people.

As for his investments, he is good. One day he said that he gave a tip to his $10,000 a month donors, and they made a fortune.

Zenovia

For those of us that have Belgian ancestry, dark chocolate is a must to the point of being a sacramental. Besides being good for you, it brings my mind to what the perfect snack in heaven can be like. Now if you had said eat more milk chocolate then that would have been satanic

Father Anthony+

Belgian chocolate IS a sacramental! If God made anything better, he kept it for himself.

For the record, a televangelist is merely a television-evangelist. Or, more simply put: a TV preacher.

The label easily fits Pat Robertson.

--tim

Dear Annie,

There is a tradition among Orthodox monastics to never receive anyone into their cell unless they first recite the Jesus Prayer out loud once!

I remember reading about a fellow who visited a Russian hesychast in his forest cottage. The hesychast said he had to leave for a while, but reminded him to let no one into the cottage/hermitage unless they could recite the Jesus Prayer . . .

During the monk's absence, someone did indeed come to the door and demanded to be let in. The pilgrim-visitor calmly asked him to recite the Jesus Prayer . . .

But whoever it was outside refused and continue to knock loudly and violently on the door.

"Say a Prayer!" the pilgrim shouted to him. And this was greeted by ridicule and laughter . . .

The hesychast finally returned and found his visitor huddled in a corner of the hermitage, shaken and trembling.

My own view about these reality shows is that they have no idea what they are playing with.

Alex

Dear all:

I just watched this movie "White Noise" and had the impression that this kind of movies (and websites promoting same) are kind of becoming an "alternative" for the ouija boards, showing themselves as a "scientific" evidence of the existance of the afterlife. I'm really impressed about the effect such a movie has in people; more than a couple of persons after the movie were talking about buying some tape recorders and probably a new VCR and start looking for some EVP's by themselves

I believe that it would be more than necessary to mention these kind of phenomena when talking about the occult, to be clear that we, as Christians, should not try to contact the dead in any way whatsoever, but to pray for them.

I'm sure that if a spirit is in Heaven, it won't be willing to "communicate" with this realm, but demons certainly are, and as Father Gregory quoted "Every evil screams only one message: 'I am good.'"

God help us who are weak in our faith and have had any approach to the occult at any time of our lives.

God Bless you all.

The biggest lie Satan has going for him is convincing the world he doesn't exist and is made up only by the Christian Church. I used a Ouija Board 26 years ago and I had nothing but bad experiences from that one seemingly "innocent" board. I couldn't figure out why so many bad things were happening? Then by choice I burned the board and glad I did. I have a friend, she is a Wiccan and I casually brought up the Ouija Board and she refuses to discuss it only to say it is a gateway for the lowest forms of demons. I was surprised by her answer and the fact she was trembling. My son wanted to get one, I said, "No!" and he understood there would be no negotiation when it comes to Tarot cards and a Ouija Board. I suggest Leaflet Missal Catalog, they have an excellent book, "An Exorcist Tells His Stories" and a follow up to that book! I recommend both to those who believe the Pentagram, Baphomet and Satan is "nonsense" evil is real and we should not take it lightly!

Beautifully said Seraphim! And ALL too true!

Your brother in the Lord,
+Fr. Gregory

Not meaning to make this thread on ouija boards a source of a dark glamour, let me say a couple of things on this subject. First of all, this occult stuff works. I know.But by the Grace of God, it wasn't the hard way. When I was a student at UT Chattanooga, my then fiancee and I were part of the core group that revived the Newman Center on campus. I had the keys to the place, and after work (I worked my way through school) I would go over to the center either to do some chores there, or else practice my trumpet, as I was in marching and concert bands. one evening, I found in the office the "Satanic Bible" read through that, the usual rantings about Christianity, but then I found a part that a prof I knew (and who is a published scholar with a Doctorate from the Sorbonne, plus he is an Orthodox Jew who came to Christ and is quite an orthodox Catholic) left for the priest. there was a note that said that no one should go past this part with out consulting with his/her spiritual advisor.Forbidden fruit syndrome being what it is, off came the paper clip and away I read. came across a prayer to one demon whose name I will not write (no it wasn't Voldemort), and for a goof, I read it out loud. I then noticed a growing darkness in the corner,but then I noticed that the darkness was pushed back. I said "oh [unprintable]", and got out. when I got home that night, I kept glancing over my shoulder while practicing my Classical guitar. For many years I have worn a medal of Michael Archangel along with a medal of Blessed Mary Theotokos, who I felt had intervened in a less than Hollywood, but even more real way. I had also, in my youth been involved with a political group that had on its book list, a large number of occult books, and whose leader was an ordained "priest" of the LaVey group, and I even got to witness a ceremony of initiation of a few fellow party members. One had later reneged on his oath, and when I saw him some time after,he was gone.To this day, I still see his eyes. I have worked with people with mental illness as a volunteer with the Mental Health Association, but his eyes were not those of someone with mental illness.He had promised that if he had reneged on his oath, that he would let his mind be taken over by Set, the Egyptian
"god" of darkness, I am a witness to his words. guess what, it happened. when it comes to ouija boards, I am not in the least bit surprised that Wiccans want nothing to do with them. May I add that Hindus warn against them as well. for the New Ager, there are tramp spirits wandering about and when someone is using a ouija board, then that person is providing a convenient stopping place for that spirit. When New Agers, Wiccans, Hindus, and real Christians (not the Liberal type, but the ones who believe in the inerrancy of the written Word of God the Bible,as well as the Godman Jesus Who was, is and will be Infallible as He is God in the flesh)concur on the dangers of the ouija board, as disparate in their theological views as they are, doesn't that tell you something? Even the Latins are wising up as they restore the ministry of exorcists. Satan is real, he is a real person, he is divine(Jesus is not divine, He is God), and he has power, and he means you woe.
Much Love,
Jonn

The power of our Eucharistic Lord and his protection over all who will read or have read this discussion.

Thank you for the prayers, Pani Rose! I was starting to get chills just reading this.

The Latins never got rid of exorcists, they just hide them. Each diocese is supposed to have an exorcist whom only the bishop knows about. Usually it's a monk. In my old cradle diocese, I found out in seminary about this, and where the monk lived, but never who it was, but I know I've met him, because I met them all. I think with the popularity of the occult, the Church needs to protect its exorcists in every way possible.

We all know what the Latin rite of exorcism looks like, even if it's a played-up hollywood version. Is there anything similar in the Eastern Churches? Or is it just prayers and blessing, not a liturgy of sorts?

I agree that Satan is real and so is evil. However, Christ does not want us to live in fear. To be forewarned is to be forearmed, and a healthy respect for evil is wise. But not fear. We have no reason to fear, since Christ is stronger than anything we could ever fear.

Hey Alex,

What would I say to someone who uses an ouija board? I'd tell them to get it OUT of their house immediately, throw some holy water on it, and barbeque the accursed thing. Then, go to confession, and then get their house blessed (or excorcized in need be).

I'd also remind the person that ouija boards are not toys, and that they are the most common cause of demonic harrassment and possession ( The Excorcist was based on a true story, and the kid had been playing with an ouija board!).

Occult demons are the most powerful and the hardest to get rid of.