www.byzcath.org Forums Faith & Christian Life Parish Life & Evangelization I Hate Converts...(And I Am One)

It might seem strange and counter-intuitive, but I've always felt more comfortable in an environment and among people that would be considered "cradle". When we were in a convert heavy parish I felt like something of a white crow.

Andrew

Dear Andrew,

Right you are!

Why is it that so many converts pay attention to the "letter of the law?"

Not that that's a bad thing to follow the canons.

Alex

How is one who reads the law to know which situations are of greater importance or lesser importance? If it is a suggestion, then why phrase it as a law?

This goes back to the need for the church to be involved in an inquirer's conversion, as the seeker does not have the history and tradition of the church behind him in order to figure it all out for himself. Otherwise, it is no better than the Protestant version of every man being his own pope, but with a few more sources to pull from thrown in.

Some do, some don't. My issues were a little different though.

Andrew

I would feel honored to have someone like you in my parish...

Your 'cradle' friend,
Alice

Awwww shucks. Thanks.

Your "xenos" friend.

Andrew

On the "letter of the law"....

As a Prottie, I had done some fasting, especially in times of spiritual duress. However, I had no real praxis of fasting as the East does.

When I entered the Church, I immediately began the Friday fast. My wife, who was not at all interested in her nutcake husband's newest theological hobby, could have cared less. I was served meat on Friday more than once, which I tried to delicatedly eat around without notice.

I finally posted a sign on the range hood above the stove.

NO MEAT ON WEDNESDAYS AND FRIDAYS.

That, my friends is the "letter of the law", which is all converts understand in their haste to practice the Faith as truly as possible.

A while later, after discussions with my wise god-mother in the Faith, I suddenly came to realize that I was violating the "spirit of the law" -- which is LOVE!!!

My wife worked hard to make a nice meal. My declining it, even if done in a proper theological construct, woundeed her and made her even more distrustful of the Faith (Lord Jesus Christ, Son of God, have mercy on me a sinner!).

"Offer it up to God and eat your dinner," was my god-mother's wise advice. "Love is more important. He knows the intent and desires of your heart."

What I understand now that I didn't understand as a newbie to the Faith was that the Law of Love supercedes the Law of Canon in matters such as this.

(Obviously there is a line which cannot be crossed, such as skipping Liturgy, which is a no-no)

As converts, we want to be obedient. That is what we were taught at Protties. But sometimes -- often, in fact -- we miss the greater law of love for others.

And this goes not only for our relationships within the family, but more especially in ouir discussions with those outside the Faith. I have both seen and participated in (Lord Jesus Christ, Son of God, have mercy on me a sinner!) conversations which were exhibitions of pride, self-centeredness, and the fine art of ad hominum attacks, rather than a display of the love of Christ for others.

Have patience with us converts. With your guidance, we can turn into good Catholics and good people in the parish we are in without losing all of that zeal we had upon entering. It just needs a good tempering.

Brother Ed

I would have to agree with Altar Boy. Converting to the Church is an emotionally, spiritually, and mentally a challenging/uplifting/exhausting journey, all at once. I also probably came across as a know-it-all.

I will admit to being tempted by fanaticism and outward things that aren't necessarily important. I sported the hippie-monk look for some time until I realized all that hair was a source of pride. I try to keep myself in check now.

It is frustrating to come home to the Church, and to see so much laxity among people who have had the privilege of being raised in the Church from childhood, and have not had to "find" it the way converts had to. Eventually one must learn to focus on the liturgy when at church (not on people), and on one's own spiritual life instead of what heresies are harboring in the souls of fellow church members or of Bishop So And So.

I can imagine that converts are frustrating at times. But cradlers can be equally frustrating to converts, especially the super-ethnic old timer who looks at you like you have no right being in that church in the first place.

Finally, one point that the writer of the mentioned article fails to mention is this: Zealous converts don't do half as much nagging and dictating to the faithful what they should believe as the liberals, feminists, and pro-this and that'ers do.

Just sharing my thoughts, which are worth little, hoping to offend no one.

I have never had ANY problems from "cradle" Orthodox in the Church. Actually, my first greeting from a babushka was a big kiss, three times of course on my cheeks! Nothing but great love which seems to swell up from the Ukrainian and Russian soul!

The Cradles love the converts and the converts love the cradles in my experience. We couldn't get along without each other.

CDL

Dear Professor Dan,

You obviously don't attend the parishes I know up here!

But it is great that your parish is like that!

Alex

Yuuun huh!!!

We have a name for converts at St. Ann's.

BOAT PEOPLE!!!

I was informed of this from one of my fellow converts in the catecheumen's class. He was standing in the nathex and happened to overhear two of the ethnic "old timers" refer to us converts as such.

LOL!!

Brother Ed -- dripping wet from my boat ride!

My fiancee and I attend a Ruthenian parish. She is a cradle Roman Catholic. I was raised in an evangelical household (mother's family Southern Baptist, father's family Pentecostal). In my early thirties, while in seminary, I ended up in the Episcopal Church. Then, because of concerns over recent developments in the Episcopal Church, I became Orthodox (OCA). Everyone was friendly and welcoming. At the Ruthenian Church, we have encountered some hostility, but people have been very gracious for the most part. As far as the hostility goes, some came from cradle Eastern Catholics, some from converts. Fortunately, the graciousness of most of the people (cradle Eastern Catholics and converts alike) has outweighed the hostility of a few.

I think really cradles and converts have qualitites that should complement one another. Cradles the confidence of the faith they have preserved, and converts enthusiasm of the faith they have found. When either of these go to extremes, you will have problems. When met in balance, I think you can have something truly wonderful.

Andrew

The people in the Melkite and Antiochian churches tend to refer to the new Middle Eastern immigrants as FOBs (Fresh off the Boat). Now, they are cradle Christians.


Then there are the reverts, who are baptized and chrismated as infants but fall away from the One Holy Catholic and Apostolic Church in search of greener pastures only to repent like the prodigal and come home again.

One Greek Orthodox Priest said that we are all converts because there was a time when we were all unbaptized and unchrismated.

Furthermore, we all had to undergo a time of catechesis whether as children or adults.


It is too bad that we label people.