www.byzcath.org Forums Faith & Christian Life Parish Life & Evangelization a target market for growth ?

I will agree with my friend John to a certain extent. The protestants do get converts by getting them to a "personal relationship" with Jesus Christ. But, this is an emotional and subjective relationship. A true and salvific relationship can only come by partaking of the Holy Mysteries "Baptism...saves you" -- 2 Peter, "Your fathers ate manna in the desert and they died. He who eats of this bread will live forever." -- John 6th chapter, etc... Protestants use the same sales tactics that the Mormons and $cientologists use. (Except $cientology is black magic wrapped in psychological terms, ask me about it.)

I am going to ask those who are holier than I (sinner that I am) how long it actually takes to have a real relationship with Our Lord. Does theosis happen right away? Does one see the Light of Tabor after attending a few Divine Liturgies? Or does it take work and 365,000,000 or so Jesus Prayers?

Protestantism (especially American Protestantism) is a quick fix. Lazy Americans want a quick fix. "You mean all I have to do is exercise, lose weight, and watch my diet, and my pain will go away on its own? Nah, just give me a pill that will cover up my symptoms." That's the typical American! That's why the protestants get converts. No confession, no anointing, no reason to show up on Sunday or Christmas, no rules, nothing expected, no Pope or Patriarch to listen to, just Jesus, my Bible, and me. Americans are very individualistic, that's why public transportation doesn't fly here.

We have to shake 'em up! Know our faith inside and out, and know theirs as well. We have to point out the chinks in their armor and attack them to gain the victory for Our Lord (metaphorically speaking of course.) That requires some apologetic work. I think that radio and TV are our best bet, that and the web.

A thought occurred to me on my way home for lunch. A video, like on this site, explaining everything. Each in its own 3-4 minute sound bite. "These pictures you see are called Icons... Just like Jesus is referred to as the Icon of the Father in Paul's Letter to ___ ... Some may object because of what Exodus __:__ says, but you have to take it in context. A few paragraphs later God himself commands Moses to make graven images of Cherubim... etc, etc, etc.." Each and every aspect should be covered and should end with "If you want to see for yourself click at the bottom of the screen to find a Byzantine Parish near you. Come and join us. We'll see you soon!"

Dear Dr. Eric,

This will be short as I am getting ready to travel a couple of hours to serve at an ordination to the priesthood this morning. The matter of media outside of print and internet have been properly examined quite thoroughly over the past several years. Outside of programs like "Light of the East" and "Come Recieve the Light" there are no others that are currently produced. The major reason is expense. Media outlets want major $$$ for any airtime.

As far as PSAs (Public Service Announcements), some stations are willing to air them, but at very off times, i.e. 3AM. I have a copy of a series of PSAs that were produced and distributed by the OCA along the lines of what you are describing. I may have heard them once or twice in my travels, generally when returning from a very late night "sick" call from the hospital. These were produced almost ten years ago, and I live in a major media market.

Now if radio is cost prohibitive, imagine what television is like. Both Catholic and Orthodox have television production facilities and ministries. With the cost of what TV wants to air (this includes cable access) most productions are just archived.

However there is a a glimmer of light. With the advent of MP4 technology, the idea of video podcasts is beginning to take off. I believe it will take a year or so before the players and the sites to download from are available at a reasonable cost. I know because I have assigned to look into to this for my department and the archdiocese. Unfortunately, I do not have the time this morning to look for a sample link of one for you to play on your computer's media player. If you PM me, I'll try to find the link to one when I get home tonight.

In IC XC,
Father Anthony+

I understand that major media is very expensive. I was actually thinking of a 3-4 minute video on this website or on another. Each little bit would be explained in the video. So there would be Icons in blue so you could click on it, Baptism in blue so you could click on it, and so forth. Each would explain a bit so there could literally be 2 hours worth of material in little bites so one could learn at his or her leisure. Once again each segment would end with a call to action phrase.

Here's the kicker, you have to find out how to get at the top of all the major search engines: Google, Yahoo, AOL, etc... The people who have internet companies, such as Matt Furey et al all have a way to get listed at the top 3 of all sites on the search engines. Now all you have to do is get listed at the top under all relevant categories: Christianity, Jesus Christ, Orthodox, Catholic, Sacraments, Worship, etc... That's the way to drive them to this or a similar site. That's how those guys make millions on the internet. The Eastern Church needs to get 'em to the site and explain with the little videos.

In regard to the church and media, the following has been out by ZENIT on the subject.

In IC XC,
Father Anthony+

For some, perhaps. For others, the relationship with Jesus is deep and real. The Good Thief said to Jesus while he was dying, "Remember me, Oh Lord, when you come into Your Kingdom." And Jesus replied, "Amen, I say to you: Today [not tomorrow, not several years from now, but today] you shall be with Me in Paradise."

I know people who had a born again experience but who never profited by it. And I know others whose hearts and lives were completely changed. The difference is how open people are in their hearts and then in their choices to the grace of Jesus Christ.

I am not saying we should give up the Mysteries and the Tradition and become born-again Protestants. Instead, I'm saying that we must consciously offer people the opportunity to know Jesus personally -- and not as an abstract idea or as a remote divinity. Then, the Mysteries and Tradition can take root.

St. Symeon the New Theologian got into trouble for arguing something similar in his own day. While some of his statements remain controversial to this day, the gist of his message endures. Basically, the Mysteries and Tradition are puissant with God's grace, BUT God's grace "works" (i.e., God's grace can be efficacious in divinizing a person) only to the extent that a person's heart is open to God's grace. And being open to God's grace depends on experiencing God in His infinite love for us and then responding to Him with our love. We love Him because He has loved us. As St. Paul wrote so well (Galatians 2:20): "While I live, not I who live, but Christ who lives in me. And while I live in the flesh, I live by faith in the Son of God: who has loved me and who has given Himself up for me."

Evangelization means sharing Jesus. We can't effectively evangelize unless and until we have Jesus in our lives. We can't give what we don't have. And for those of us who (by God's grace) already have Jesus in our lives, we have to remember that it is Jesus who must be shared because it is Jesus who does the converting.

Look: when the apostles evangelized, the Tradition hadn't been developed into anything like it is today. In the Apostles' day, there was the Gospel (in oral form), the Mysteries (in much less ritual form), and the understanding of these (which was the seed of what would later develop into the Tradition as we know it). Yet, these men converted the world -- precisely because they didn�t do any converting. Instead, they allowed Jesus and the Holy Spirit to convert them and to act through them to convert others unto God.

As for media of communication: Fr. Anthony is right. Mass media is expensive: often prohibitively expensive. Hence, again, I think our efforts should concentrate on the websites because they are cheap and because they easily can be accessed by people -- especially people who are already looking on the internet for spiritual Truth.

Jesus is the Way, the Truth and the Life; and people who are looking for spiritual Truth are looking for Jesus, even if they do not yet recognize His Name. Our job is to simply show them Jesus (�Sir, can you show us Jesus?� asked the Jews from foreign lands to the Apostles); and Jesus will take care of the rest: in us and through us by His grace.

-- John

OK John and Dr. Eric,

How do we go about getting our faithful trained so that when the inquirer comes to the door, they do not send them away empty?

I think that is the major question, since we have the capabilities of producing the website of our dreams and the ability to serve the services properly. Otherwise, all we have is the commercials and the availability to serve but no one to feed them.

In IC XC,
Father Anthony+

I came across this, using Padre Pio. I have not read it completely but it uses an intertaining and imagnitve way of getting basics across. It seems to use the Cathceism to try to refer folks to the Catcheism of the Catholic Church.
http://www.cathnews.com/news/601/97.php is the article then http://www.life4seekers.co.uk is the link to the site. It is not churched approved and does talk about focusing on self a good bit. But an interesting format for teaching just the same.

Pani Rose

Dear Fr. Anthony,

How do we train catechists in the local parish ? I honestly do not know. I have no experience or knowledge about how the Church forms catechists and evangelists. I would interested to read posts by people who do know.

In the meantime, here is some speculation. I suspect that the initial burden will fall on the parish priest. As spiritual leader of the local community, he must demonstrate that evangelization and catechesis are priorities. How to do that? Again, I don't know. I suspect that it might be as simple as making a decision and following up on it by announcing it to the parish. I'm still speculating, but I wonder if the priest could just announce at the weekly liturgy (and in the parish bulletin) that evangelization and catechesis are now priorities. And, he could further say that he will be starting an evangelization and catechesis class for interested persons. Then, if anyone is interested, they can attend the class; and the priest can conduct the class over several weeks: in Scripture, doctrine, prayer and fasting and so on that is required for learning and sharing the Gospel. Then, after a certain amount of time and successful participation in the class, the priest could take his students to the bishop for some kind of official testing, approval and recognition as catechists and evangelists. Then, the newly certified catechists and evangelists could share the Gospel: at readers services held at universities and other places, by holding classes of their own, by answering email or the telephone from inquirers, and so on.

Again, my thoughts are pure speculation. I have no direct experience about how the Church forms new catechists and evangelists. I have zero knowledge on this topic for either the Catholic Church or the Orthodox Church. I would be very interested to learn how the Church forms new catechists and evangelists.

-- John

John,

Probably a better rephrase of my question, is how do we get all our faithful to buy into the Great Commission? Again we have can have good catechists or evangelism teams, but a community that is not interested in having those from the outside enter will neutralize their efforts.

I bring this up, because we seem to have a problem. Not only is it effecting attracting those that are starving for the gospel, but is also strangling those that are within, i.e. our youth and those in mixed marriages.

In IC XC,
Father Anthony+

Fr. Anthony,

That is the big question. And, I don't have a definite answer for you. I suspect, though, that the answer is saints. In other words, I suspect that the answer is the example (and the prayers) of righteous men and women and children that will either persuade others to support evangelization or that will overcome oppostion. Someone has to be inspired with the Holy Spirit of God in order for others to be inspired. Then, most of the rest of a community will follow; or that community will die out: first spiritually and then physically.

a sinner,

-- John

The HOLY SPIRIT!

Change the culture!

First in the Churches.

We need more Orthodoxy (in as many definitions as possible! )

The sermons and homilies need to teach more and not preach less but instruct what the gospel means and how to share it. Especially for the Reading of the Day. It should be tied into the Liturgy. Like as I PM'd Father Anthony about it. Sunday's Gospel was about the blind man who called out "Jesus, Son of David. Have Mercy on me!" I immediately thought of myself crying out The Jesus Prayer groping about in the dark asking for the light to be given to me to know which path to take next. "Lord, that I may see." Show me the way Lord, enlighten me. Sunday's Homily could have been on The Jesus Prayer and how to do it and how the Lord will show the way if you pray enough.

Saints are made, they can bring others to the Lord.

Each Sunday's Homily (and each day if one can get to a Divine Liturgy) can and probably should be an instruction. I've heard homily after homily on "don't gossip, share your stuff, be nice." That's all well and good, but that's the least of our worries. How about the fact that 7 out of 10 Catholics DON'T BELIEVE that Our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ is present in the Eucharist. There's a dire need for re-education in that regard!

Take care of the root cause of the disease and the symptoms will disappear.

Alright!

We seem to have a concensus. This now leads us back to another thread that seems to have been forgotten if we are going to address this.

forgotten thread

It seems we are going to have to lead from the top down, and this may be the way. Have you noticed our threads are crossing at this point?

Your thoughts?

In IC XC,
Father Anthony+

Dear Fr. Anthony,

With humble respect, I say that I hadn't forgotten that thread which you cited. I quit posting on that thread because there didn't seem to be any more point to post there. Fr. Anthony, you cited your position as being on the "inside" to support your argument; and that seemed to trump whatever else I, as an "outsider," might have to say.

But, for the sake of this thread, I'll repeat my two main points from that other thread.

First, I do not think the Orthodox Churches and the Eastern Catholic Churches will co-operate on a joint program of preaching renewal because (A) many members of both churches hate each other or couldn't care less about each other and (B) the Orthodox have nothing to gain by co-operating with Byzantine Catholics since they are numerically and evangelically superior to Byzantine Catholics.

Second, I do not think a program for preaching renewal is "the answer." I think it is an application of "the answer," which is interior conversion (metanoia and theosis). Absent that, and no public speaking program will help very much. We would get better constructed sermons --better speeches-- but we wouldn't get much more grace. Only if the preachers were more alive in Christ through the Holy Spirit would they then be more capable of being fuller vehicles for the grace and movement of God.

So, at the risk of sounding naive or simplistic, I think we should devote ourselves to a program of spiritual renewal: among the laity as well as among the clergy. It need not be dramatic with arms waving and what not. Instead, a program of spiritual renewal should be a conscious effort to remember the Gospel, to rediscover conversion to Christ in the Holy Spirit (metanoia), and to recommit ourselves to a conscious, sober, measured program of growing in holiness everyday (theosis): through purification, illumination and divinization.

a sinner,

-- John

John,

Agreed. I have to tell you at least from my side, that renewal is constantly at the forefront of our clergy development. In a few cases it is showing some positive light. What fustrates me and and most of the clergy striving for renewal is an ongoing battle, is were faithful have been putting there priorities.

With the shift in secular demands among our people many things such as church and their faith are taking a back seat. One of the things is school activities for example. The children at our home for children attend public high school due to the prohibitive costs of running a private school in our state. More and more demands are being made for extra-cirricular activities to be done at times on weekends including Sundays. This includes Sunday mornings as of this year. With that I have had to go to war with the local school board over this. I believe that is giving the children a poor example and puts them in a spot of participating or not. Needless to say, the children and I have some run ins with this, but so far I have prevailed.

With a society that is demanding more and more, they are purposely crowding out church and making people cubbyhole their faith. We may not think that it is effecting the church but it is. The different departments I work with for my archdiocese labor long hours each week working towards renewal. But if we can not get them into church, they are great plans in a file cabinet.

We have to have the faithful realign their priorities. It seems that balance is not the key word any more. Too often I have heard that for reasons of employment or school our faithful have had to abstain themselves, most times for compulsory reasons.

We the clergy can preach the best spiritual sermons that can be on the par of Saint John Chrysostom, but if the faithful hold to the idea that secular demands come first, we will at best be treading water.

In IC XC,
Father Anthony+