www.byzcath.org Forums Faith & Christian Life Parish Life & Evangelization a target market for growth ?

Some excellent comments all around. I especially agree that we should not target one group over another for evangelization. All are welcome. All need to be called.

Father Anthony hits it exactly with his comments. The internet can only offer the basics. Human interaction is necessary. I answer between 10-20 e-mail questions each week that come to the website from internet surfers. While about 1/3 of the e-mails seem to be from people who are seeking, only about 1/4 of these are from people who are seriously seeking. Very often I am able to cover a lot of ground in a very short time and then refer them to parishes. I have been rewarded on a number of occasions when speaking to our clergy that these people are now members of one of our parishes.

As I repeatedly say, ultimately everything flows from the celebration of the Divine Liturgy. If the liturgical life of a parish is healthy, vibrant and Spirit-filled, people will see this and be attracted to it. If the liturgical life of a parish is not healthy, not vibrant and not Spirit-filled people will also see this and not be attracted to it.

Evangelical programs are wonderful, but they are useless without a good celebration of the Liturgy.

The old saying always proves true. As Christians we evangelize Jesus Christ at every moment of the day by how we live our lives. Just what exactly are we saying about Him to those we meet?

I agree 100% with our administrator. Once we get these people into our churches, it will be the rich and properly celebrated Divine Liturgy and other services that will captivate and attract them to come back. I know, for it is what kept me coming back over 27 years ago.

In IC XC,
Father Anthony+

I really like the Greek Orthodox website -- it has tremendous resources on it. If you haven't seen it, it's worth a look at www.goarch.org [goarch.org]

Take some time to look around, it really is powerful.

Wow, thank you for all you do! Glory to Jesus Christ!

Yes, but I would also suggest an element of caution. If we push too hard to get people to come to Divine Liturgy, some people will be turned off.

In other words, there should be three goals which the front page of the website seeks to accomplish: (1) welcome people without pressuring them to join, (2) direct them to the information they are seeking and (3) and then remind them that they can only fully learn our religion by participating in it. It's not a question of emphasis, so as not to off-put potential seekers.

I say this as someone who has been doing my own seeking / investigating into Byzantine Christianity for the last 2 years or so. One of the very nice things about this website is that there is no pressure to visit Divine Liturgy now. Instead, there is the sense to visit Divine Liturgy when a person is ready. That has given me (and, I presume, others) the comfort of being able to explore without feeling pressured to join. As a result, I was able to grow into this momentous decision to change religion. Thus, once I was ready to start attending Divine Liturgy, the grace of God was able to touch me through the liturgy and the people. The lesson, from my case and (I presume) from others, is that conversion cannot be rushed.

Now, I know that rushing things not what anyone is suggesting.

I also know that experiencing Divine Liturgy and the community are what takes a process of conversion from the mostly intellectual to the experiential and (hopefully) a deeper spiritual levels.

But I also know that many who visit here will never become Byzantine Catholic nor, perhaps, any other Eastern form of Christianity. They need to be made welcome too.

So, taking all of this into consideration, I would suggest the following:

In the new version of the website's front page, have some links about the basics of the faith. Also have links to this Forum and to the contact information for parishes, eparchies, and so on. BUT, in between the links for basic information and the links for contacts, have a link to a page entitled "For More Information."

For example, here is a possible sketch for the front page.

Etc. I'm not insisting on any specific language or layout; it's just a sketch to give an idea of what I am proposing: (1) make people feel welcome without pressuring them to join, (2) direct them to the information, and (3) remind them that only by participating in the religion will they know it fully.

Next, here is a sketch for the page "For More information". You could list some of the major books (such as the Light and Life series), some multi-media and other good websites about Byzantine Christianity. Also, towards the bottom of the page, you could say something to this effect:

Again, I'm not suggesting specific language; I'm just trying to provide a sketch to illustrate my main point: (1) welcome people without pressuring them to join, (2) direct them to the information and (3) remind them that they can only truly learn our religion by participating in it.

Likewise, here is a sketch for the contact information page. Before listing the current contact data, you could include a blurb with words to this effect:

Again, I'm only giving a sketch; I'm not insisting on specific language, layout, etc. I just want to illustrate my main point:

For a more evangelical website, we need to accomplish three goals: (1) make people feel welcome without pressuring them to join, (2) direct people to solid information about our religion, and (3) remind people that they just can't read about our religion to learn it; they have to experience it and live it to truly learn it.

And then, God's grace --especially through us-- will do the rest.

-- John

I agree and I disagree.

Yes, we are called to evagelize everyone.

But, there are some people who are actively looking for their way to God. I think we should make a special effort to reach them since they are already looking and that much more interested. To use a business analogy, they are the market looking for us.

Happily, by having a good, evangelical website, we would be doing both. We would be reaching out to all, and we would be especially available to to those who are actively seeking via the internet.

-- John

John,

I have no problem with the website redesigns (and I truly would welcome it), or the matter of caution getting people into the church for the Divine Liturgy, etc. It is that a major step in between is seriously lacking. Think! You have fed them the information, and maybe even got them into the church and liturgy, but without properly trained personel, i.e. catechists or evangalist teams, many will leave and never darken the doors again.

How many times have we read here on this forum of negative encounters in one church or another, and people made to feel unwelcome or ignored? We have to get the communities to buy into evangelism, and be there to also help our seekers further with their quest of spiritually seeking.

A web site can only answer basic information. To prepare for every contingency of question would be an infinite and full-time task. Our GOA website that was mentioned earlier is just a drop in the bucket. Our archdiocese maintains an IT Dept of five full-time employees just to maintain and upgrade it. That is not counting the personel from the seminary and the Dept of Outreach and Evangelism that has input into it along with the communications department. Still the site can be improved to better handle the inquiries.

Along with step one and three, we need to start focusing on the in between, what to do to prepare and train our own when we encounter the seeker either on the street or in the church itself. This will be an ongoing task. Remember all, not just some are called to bring forth the gospel.

I laud the suggestion, but when certain things such as "unofficial" are viewed by many, many times it is not taken seriously. That is why we also have to prepare steps two and three, and that requires training and prayer.

Just my thoughts.

In IC XC,
Father Anthony+

Someone reminded me of this today.

There�s a woman in our spiritual growth class who graduated from Penn State not too long ago. She said there�s a convert there who preaches every day (just during the week I think) in front of one of the main buildings on campus. He has themed talks and I guess on one day of the week goes in to the reasons why he left Protestantism, or at least what the problems are with that belief system. She said he has reached a lot of people who would have never heard of Orthodoxy otherwise and apparently there has been a steady stream of catechumens and inquirers at Fr. John�s church at State College as a result.

Aside from this I think campus ministries are vital, because this is such a formative time for so many people. We really strongly back the work of the OCF and OCMC, both individually and as a parish.

Our priest is a former Evangelical Protestant, but I can�t remember exactly how he converted. He was about college age when it happened though.

Andrew

Dear Fr. Anthony,

Wow ! There is a LOT in that post worth pondering ! Especially:

If I understand you correctly, the business analogy would be this: All the marketing is useless if the point of sale is unprepared for a prospect. Likewise, all our evangelizing will be fruitless if our communities are unprepared to welcome and instruct and receive seekers.

Hmm. Before I say anything more, I'm going to ponder more on what you wrote. Thank you for making that post !

-- John

John,

I am at the office right now in between meetings and doing research for other things. I look forward to your reply this evening.

In IC XC,
Father Anthony+

If you think in advertising forms your "call to action" is too weak. "If you're ready", "When you're ready" are too weak. You don't have to hit people over the head but you need a better call to action. "Click here for Byzantine parishes in your area to come and see for yourself!" It is a good call to action phrase without being pushy or wishy-washy. The Protestants get converts because they are pushy and aggressive, they grow because they tell others that they have the answers. I think that the Eastern Churches need this type of approach.

Once I was in KC for a post-grad seminar. I wandered around (as I often do) in between sessions and into a Greek Orthodox meeting of some sort, I'm not sure what it was. Anyway, there were 3 people in the room at this point, another doctor, a woman of Greek heritage, and myself. The other doctor asked what all the pictures were, and she said "These are the pictures of _____ and _____ we're Greek Orthodox. The Eastern Orthodox are the original Chruch of Jesus Christ before all the splits and fights happened."

I told her as a Catholic that I had a little problem with that statement , and then we hit it off.

Her statement is exactly the kind of punch that is needed. I believe that kind of statement is what gets the "butts in the pews" in the protestant churches. You have the Truth, the Sacraments (Holy Mysteries,) and the other worldly Divine Liturgy. Tell the world, don't be shy, don't stay in your ghetto. Be aggressive with it!

I also think that Greek Fests are good vehicles for this kind of work if done right. Especially if the Priest explains the Church, the Icons, the married priesthood, but especially the Divine Liturgy. Maybe even a mock run through without all the prayers but a good and thorough summary. Why this is done, what that means, etc...

Dr. Eric,

Most Greek Orthodox parishes that do festivals or similar, do offer church tours at various intervals throughout led by the priest and often include handouts. They also have a series of tracts that are reproducible from the Department of Outreach and Evangelism free of charge. Many see this an opportunity to reach out to others and educate.

Parishes of other Orthodox jurisdictions host open house and lecture series, open to the public.

Just a few ideas that are out there.

In IC XC,
Father Anthony+

I had never been to an Orthodox Church until I went to Sts. Constantine and Helen Greek Orthodox Church in Swansea, Illinois. Before then all I knew about Orthodoxy was what I had seen in the HBO movie "Rasputin." Locally (an hour from me) there is Assumption (that's right Assumption) Greek Orthodox Church in Des Peres, MO (St. Louis suburb) they have a luncheon I think every friday. It's been awhile since I've been there, they also have a Greek Fest Memorial and Labor Day weekends (Mmmmm gyros!) They do give church tours and have a Q&A but I don't know if they have an outreach. If they do it's more of a "soft sell." That is unless you ask Father Joseph directly as I have. He tried to convert me and make me a Greek Orthodox priest when I was considering a Roman Catholic vocation!

Here's their website:

www.assumptiongoc.com [assumptiongoc.com]

PS In the church at www.byzantinecatholic.com [byzantinecatholic.com] there is an icon of St. Mary of Egypt, why is she shirtless?

Fr. Anthony,

I�m going to include my response to your post within my response to Dr. Eric�s post.


Dr. Eric,

I agree in part with your observation, but I disagree with the conclusion that you draw from it.

You wrote:

I think the core to Protestant Christianity is the personal conversion experience to Jesus. I think that goes back to Martin Luther (when he was reading Romans), and I think that Evangelicalism and Pentecostalism are the latest examples of this.

So, it is not pushiness and aggressiveness that gets converts to Protestantism. It is offering a conversion experience to Jesus that gets them converts.

Allow me to illustrate with an example. A few days ago, I had a conversion with a nice young man from Egypt who is coming to America to study. The conversation turned to religion, and he proudly told me that he is an Orthodox Christian of the Coptic Church. He also told me that he is an Evangelical Christian and that he attends both churches. When I asked him how he could be both, he replied, �The Coptic Church has the Tradition and the Mysteries, but it was only the Evangelicals that enabled me to have a personal relationship with Jesus Christ.�

I think that lies behind most of the huge growth in Evangelical and Pentecostal Christianity. This young man wasn�t abandoning his Coptic Church. However, he wasn�t finding a personal relationship with Jesus in his church. So, he is attending the church that did provide that for him: an Evangelical church.

Now, that raises an interesting question: How do Protestants present an opportunity have a personal relationship with Jesus?

I think the answer is actually rather simple: they are more open to Jesus Christ. They might not keep all of His teachings after the conversion experience: for example, they don�t have the Mysteries or the Tradition. But, in that moment of conversion there is a real openness of heart. And it is that openness of heart which is the door that Jesus is knocking upon (�Behold, I stand at the door and knock.�) and which He enters -- when it is opened to Him.

Now, who to help people to open their hearts to Jesus? Here is the real grist of the issue.

First, people who want to give Jesus to others must first have Jesus in themselves. So, first in themselves and then in others, people must truly accept Jesus as their personal Lord and Savior, usually starting by recognizing Him as the answer to all their needs, problems and longings.

Second, people must know about Him. Here is where Fr. Anthony�s comments are really worth pondering. Protestant evangelists don�t succeed just by being �saved.� They also learn their faith, inside and out, so they can cogently and compassionately share it with others. That means, they spend time learning their faith. For Protestants, that includes Bible study, prayer, keeping the commandments, practicing some fasting and almsgiving / tithing, and so on. They also study other faiths: what is officially taught by them and, especially, what their members actually believe . In that way, they can exploit people�s weaknesses so as to help people accept Jesus. Then, after much prayer, they go out and do it. They don�t form a committee; they just do it.

Third, Protestants use a proven, three-step formula for converting people. (1) Get people to have a conversion experience in a Protestant Church. The �hook� that will attract people will be things like youth ministries, divorce support, Bible study and friendly, enthusiastic participants. Then, during or through those activities, people hear the basic Protestant message: repent of sin and live anew and forever: in Jesus Christ. (2) Give the conversion experience a Protestant interpretation: by grace and scripture. (3) If the person is Catholic or Orthodox, accuse their church of denying salvation by grace by exploiting their ignorance of scripture (and the Catholic or Orthodox faith). By the way, I didn�t come up with these three points. They come from an essay by a convert to Catholicism who used to be a Protestant evangelist. The essay is entitled, �How I Led Catholics Out of the Church.� If you haven�t read it yet, I commend it to your attention; it can be found at http://catholiceducation.org/articles/apologetics/ap0057.html .

Now, how can we use this information? I suggest the following:

(1) We actually have to love Jesus by having a living, real, personal relationship with Him. Our love for Him must be so great and so activated by Divine Life that we want to share Him with everybody.

(2) We have to actually and thoroughly know our faith. We also have to know other faiths (or lack thereof), so we can help people find and accept Jesus. For us, that means theosis: mystically as well as intellectually. It also means (as Fr. Anthony implied) every parish having catechists who have been officially recognized as such to work with seekers and potential converts.

(3) We should adopt a proven formula too: helping people have a conversion experience, giving it a Catholic / Orthodox interpretation and being ready to reinforce that against other interpretations.

The key to evangelical success won�t come, as Fr. Anthony so rightly asserted, by a compartmentalized attitude. (�Remember all, not just some, are called to bring forth the Gospel.�) Instead, it will come when individual members of the Church are so alive in Jesus Christ, and sufficiently educated and trained in their faith, that they are impelled and equipped to share the faith with others. An evangelical website will be a good feeder of information, but it won�t do any good (as Fr. Anthony so well observed) unless there is loving, compassionate evangelical follow-up at the local parishes.

Well, that's my 2 and 1/2 cents' worth. Comments?

-- John

John,

I am going to sit back and watch how this develops before adding or offering anything else.

In IC XC,
Father Anthony+