www.byzcath.org Forums News & Events Church News U.S. Romanian Catholic Eprach Forbids the Participation of his Flock

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His Grace, Bishop John-Michael does not stand alone in his opposition to war.

His Grace, Metr. Philip of the Antiochean Archdioceses also calls for peace.

"for Peace in the World, let us beseech the Lord"

Herb

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Dear Herb,

Some just don't like the idea that Israel is an ally of the U.S.

But, violations notwithstanding, I don't recall Israel ever posing a threat to the U.S. via terrorism or support for terrorism.

Perhaps I've missed something?

And also, Met. Phillip's address doesn't impose the penalty of mortal sin on those who don't agree with him and participate in or support the U.S.

Alex

Glory to Jesus Christ!

I applaud Metropolitan Philip for his statement on the war. At the very least it, unlike Bishop John Michael's, offered reasons for rejecting military action against Iraq -- though the "tu quoque" directed toward Israel, while justified, does not itself constitute an argument against war.

"At the same time, we encourage our President and Congress to seek the difficult and tiresome road of peace rather than the bloody and dark road of war."

A question: Are war and peace truly antithetical? Is peace -- from a scriptural and patristic standpoint -- simply the absence of war? Just wondering.

"for Peace in the World, let us beseech the Lord"

Grant this, O Lord.

In Christ,
Theophilos

Dear Cantor Joseph,

You are apologising to ME for being seeminly off track?

Those are interesting points you raise, indeed . . .

The Samaritans continue to live in Israel, as you know, and are politically on the side of the Palestinians, even though they practice a form of Judaism, with their biblical canon consisting only of the Torah.

Our local newspapers also carried an interesting story about a sect whose followers live mainly in Iraq and who say they are the descendants of the faith of John the Baptist.

Their emblem is actually a Cross covered with a prayer shawl and they practice the rite of baptism frequently, their places of worship having a baptismal pool in the centre - I forget what their religious name is.

As we know, Christianity spread through the Hellenic world largely through the Jewish centres in the Diaspora where there were not only Jews by birth, but also many converts from paganism.

This too is off topic . . .

Alex

Shlomo Theophilos,
My point in posting was to show that Eparch John Michael was not alone in his thinking. Further, those of us who are under Patriarchal Churches are now being called on by our "Fathers" to oppose this war. The Maronite Patriarchs words are quite strong in this matter.

As to your point: "should we also choose to ignore the atrocities Sadaam Hussein has carried out and will likely continue to carry out against his own people and, possibly, against all mankind?" I say no, but as the Vatican and our Catholic leadership has pointed out, we should follow the law. If we are going to overthrow Saddam, then why not Mugabe, Kim, Castro, Musharraf, Saud, Assad, etc.? We seem to forget that most of the 9/11 terrorists were Saudis, none where Iraqis. If we are going to root out Islamicist, then we should go to the source (Saudi Arabia), and not play act that we are dealing with it (Iraq).

Further, if we want the rest of the world to follow the law (ie UN resolutions and the like), then we too need to do so. We should be asking ourselves why none of our allies (I mean the people not the governments) are not supporting us. Why poll after poll taken since this started, that the U.S. is listed as a bigger threat to world peace than Iraq? We need to ask why from the Vatican, to Bkerke, Lviv, to our local eparchies none of our spiritual leadership is supporting the U.S. position. These questions need to be asked and answered.

Poosh BaShlomo,
Yuhannon

Dear Friends:


Below is the gist of the official statement on the Iraq crisis issued by the President of the USCCB, Bishop Wilton Grtegory, of which the Most Rev. John Michael Botean of the Romanian Eparchy of St. George in Canton, OH, and 20 other Eastern Catholic Eparchs/Bishops are members:

http://www.zenit.org/english/visualizza.phtml?sid=32996

This might add another perspective to the enlightening discussions at hand.


AmdG

Yuhannon:

Glory to Jesus Christ!

"Why poll after poll taken since this started, that the U.S. is listed as a bigger threat to world peace than Iraq?"

Perhaps because most people are jealous of the U.S. and have turned that jealousy into selective moral outrage at the bad things we have done (both real and imagined), while ignoring much of the good?

At any rate, I wouldn't put too much stock in polls. After all, if you asked the world community whether Jesus is the Christ, most people would say no.

Sorry to be so glib and jingoistic, but I'm a little annoyed at the constant suggestion -- here and elsewhere -- that the U.S. is responsible for everything that is wrong with the world.

If I had my way, I'd pull back all our foreign aid, penalize multinational corporations who insist on exporting labor, keep our military at home, and use the money saved to feed the hungry, house the homeless, and educate the dumb.

The rest of the "world community" can then do whatever they want and try to achieve all of the great good they accuse the U.S. of constantly thwarting.

Theophilos

The link provided by Amado didn�t work so I am taking the liberty of posting the entire document and the link to the USCCB website.

Statement on War with Iraq

Most Reverend Wilton D. Gregory
President
United States Conference of Catholic Bishops

March 19, 2003

Our nation is on the brink of war. We worked and prayed and hoped that war would be avoided. The task now is to work and pray and hope that war's deadly consequences will be limited, that civilian life will be protected, that weapons of mass destruction will be eliminated, and that the people of Iraq soon will enjoy a peace with freedom and justice.

A time for prayer and solidarity. In time of war, our first obligation is prayer and solidarity. We pray for all those most directly affected by this war: the men and women who risk their lives in the service of our nation, their families and loved ones who face such fear and anxiety at this time, and the chaplains who serve them; the long-suffering people of Iraq, and those who labor to provide for their humanitarian needs. All of us should do what we can to reach out in solidarity to all those who will suffer as a result of this war.

Iraq's obligation to disarm. Since the Gulf War, we have been clear in calling on the Iraqi leadership to abandon efforts to develop weapons of mass destruction and to meet its obligations to destroy such weapons. We have also been clear that the international community must ensure that Iraq complies with its obligations under UN resolutions. As the Holy Father said last Sunday, "the political leaders in Baghdad have an urgent duty to cooperate fully with the international community, to eliminate any motive for armed intervention."

Deep regret that war was not averted. Our nation's leaders have made the momentous decision to go to war to address the failure of the Iraqi government to comply completely with its obligations. We deeply regret that war was not averted. We stand by the statement of the full body of bishops last November. Our conference's moral concerns and questions, as well as the call of the Holy Father to find alternatives to war, are well known and reflect our prudential judgments about the application of traditional Catholic teaching on the use of force in this case. We have been particularly concerned about the precedents that could be set and the possible consequences of a major war of this type in perhaps the most volatile region of the world. Echoing the Holy Father's admonition that war "is always a defeat for humanity," we have prayed and urged that peaceful means be pursued to disarm Iraq under UN auspices.

The decisions being made about Iraq and the war on terrorism could have historic implications for the use of force, the legitimacy of international institutions, and the role of the United States in the world. The moral significance of these issues must continue to be assessed given their importance in shaping a more just and peaceful world.

The role of conscience. While we have warned of the potential moral dangers of embarking on this war, we have also been clear that there are no easy answers. War has serious consequences, so could the failure to act. People of good will may and do disagree on how to interpret just war teaching and how to apply just war norms to the controverted facts of this case. We understand and respect the difficult moral choices that must be made by our President and others who bear the responsibility of making these grave decisions involving our nation's and the world's security (Catechism #2309).

We affirm the words of the Catechism: "[t]hose who are sworn to serve their country in the armed forces are servants of the security and freedom of nations. If they carry out their duty honorably, they truly contribute to the common good of the nation and the maintenance of peace" (#2310). We also affirm that "[p]ublic authorities should make equitable provision for those who for reasons of conscience refuse to bear arms" (#2311). We support those who have accepted the call to serve their country in a conscientious way in the armed services and we reiterate our long-standing support for those who pursue conscientious objection and selective conscientious objection.

The moral conduct of war. Once the decision to use military force is taken, the moral and legal constraints on the conduct of war must be observed. The United States and its allies are at war with a regime that has shown, and we fear will continue to show, a disregard for civilian lives and traditional norms governing the use of force. All the more reason that our nation upholds and reinforces these values by its own actions. While we recognize and welcome the improved capability and commitment to avoid civilian casualties, every effort must be made to ensure that efforts to reduce the risk to U.S. forces are limited by careful judgments of military necessity and the duty to respect the lives and dignity of Iraqi civilians, who have suffered so much already from war, repression, and a debilitating embargo.

Any decision to defend against Iraq"s weapons of mass destruction by using our own weapons of mass destruction would be clearly unjustified. The use of anti-personnel landmines, cluster bombs and other weapons that cannot distinguish between soldiers and civilians, or between times of war and times of peace, ought to be avoided. In all our actions in war, including assessments of whether "collateral damage" is proportionate, we must value the lives and livelihood of Iraqi civilians as we would the lives and livelihood of our own families and our own citizens.

Humanitarian concerns and post-war obligations. An already vulnerable Iraqi population could face terrible new burdens during this war, and a region already full of conflict and refugees could see more conflict and many more displaced persons with nowhere to go. Even amidst the chaos of war, every effort must be made to prevent internal strife and to protect vulnerable groups. We are deeply concerned that adequate resources and effective plans be put in place to address the humanitarian crisis in Iraq, which, at least in the short term, will be worsened by war. The United States, working with the United Nations, private relief organizations, and all interested parties, bears a heavy burden, during and after the war, of providing for POWs and the civilian population, especially refugees and displaced persons. Catholic relief agencies will continue to do all that they can to respond to the needs of the Iraqi people.

The United States also must accept the long-term responsibility to help Iraqis build a just and enduring peace in their country, while also addressing the many serious unresolved issues in the Middle East, especially the Israeli-Palestinian conflict. War and reconstruction in Iraq must not result in an abandonment of our nation's responsibilities to the poor at home and abroad, or a diversion of essential resources from other humanitarian emergencies around the world.

At times like these, we turn to God and ask for wisdom and perseverance, courage and compassion, faith and hope. We Christians are called to be "sentinels of peace," the Holy Father reminds us. We join with him in urging Catholics to dedicate this Lenten season to reflection, prayer and fasting that the trials and tragedy of war will soon be replaced by a just and lasting peace.

Office of Social Development & World Peace
United States Conference of Catholic Bishops
3211 4th Street, N.E., Washington, DC 20017-1194 (202) 541-3000
March 19, 2003 Copyright � by United States Conference of Catholic Bishops
http://www.usccb.org/sdwp/peace/stm31903.htm

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Also, the press release on this topic:

Bishops' President Deeply Regrets War;
Calls for Prayer, Protection of the Innocent,
And Steps to Avert Humanitarian Crisis

WASHINGTON (March 19, 2003) -- Expressing the bishops' deep regret that war had not been averted, and calling for prayer and solidarity, the president of the U.S. Conference of Catholic Bishops today issued a statement on the likely war with Iraq.

"Our nation is on the brink of war. We worked and prayed and hoped that war would be avoided," said Bishop Wilton D. Gregory of Belleville (IL). "The task now is to work and pray and hope that war's deadly consequences will be limited, that civilian life will be protected, that weapons of mass destruction will be eliminated, and that the people of Iraq will soon enjoy a peace with freedom and justice."

After issuing his statement, Bishop Gregory was set to preside at a Mass on the Feast of St. Joseph and to pray for peace in a time of war at the Basilica of the National Shrine of the Immaculate Conception in Washington. The 60 members of the USCCB Administrative Committee, meeting here this week, will concelebrate.

Bishop Gregory's statement, which is based on a framework adopted this morning by the Administrative Committee meeting here today, addressed several concerns:

� Prayer and Solidarity: Calling prayer and solidarity "our first obligation" at this time, it urges prayer for the "men and women who risk their lives in the service of our nation, their families and loved ones �, and the chaplains who serve them; the long-suffering people of Iraq, and those who labor to provide for their humanitarian needs."

� Iraq: The statement recalls the Bishops' consistent call on the Iraqi leadership to "abandon efforts to develop weapons of mass destruction and to meet its obligations to destroy such weapons."

� Moral Concerns: Bishop Gregory noted that the bishops' "moral concerns and questions, as well as the call of the Holy Father to find alternatives to war, are well known and reflect prudential judgments about the application of traditional Catholic teaching on the use of force in this case." He reaffirmed concern about "the precedents that could be set and the possible consequences of a major war of this type in perhaps the most volatile region of the world."

� Conscience: Bishop Gregory acknowledged that "war has serious consequences, and so could failure to act" and "that people of good will can and do differ" on these matters. He quoted the Catechism of the Catholic Church on the vocation of military service, expressing support for "those who have accepted the call to serve their country in a conscientious way in the armed services" and "for those who pursue conscientious objection and selective conscientious objection."

� The Moral Conduct of War: Bishop Gregory stated that "every effort must be made to ensure that efforts to reduce the risk to U.S. forces are limited by careful judgments of military necessity and the duty to respect the lives and dignity of Iraqi civilians, who have suffered so much already from war, repression, and a debilitating embargo." He added, "in all our actions in war, including assessments of whether �collateral damage' is proportionate, we must value the lives and livelihood of Iraqi civilians as we would the lives and livelihood of our own families and our own citizens."

� Humanitarian Concerns: Bishop Gregory said that "even amidst the chaos of war, every effort must be made to prevent internal strife and to protect vulnerable groups. We are deeply concerned that adequate resources and effective plans be put in place to address the humanitarian crisis in Iraq, which, at least in the short term, will be worsened by war." He also said that the United States must accept "the long-term responsibility to help Iraqis build a just and enduring peace in their country, while also addressing the many serious unresolved issues in the Middle East, especially the Israeli-Palestinian conflict."

Finally, the statement called on Catholics to join Pope John Paul II to "dedicate this Lenten season to reflection, prayer and fasting that the trials and tragedy of war will soon be replaced by a just and lasting peace."

The statement issued today builds on Bishop Gregory's letter to President Bush in September 2002, the statement of the full body of Bishops in November 2003, and Bishop Gregory's statement last month. It reflects and complements the strong witness for peace and work to avoid war of Pope John Paul II and the Holy See.

http://www.usccb.org/comm/archives/2003/03-065.htm

This and other Church statements on Iraq, educational, and liturgical resources on war and peace can be found on the Web at www.usccb.org. [usccb.org.]

Dear Admin:


Thanks for coming to my rescue!

It came as fast as our new server does.


AmdG

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Dear Fr. Administrator:

Thank you for the helpful post from the US conference of Catholic Bishops:

I may not have any jurisdiction, not being either American or Roman Catholic, but, I can only add that I find it also helpful to read the post-War Statement with the pre-War statement:

http://www.usccb.org/sdwp/international/iraqstatement0203.htm

In Spirit, I don't find it significantly different from the Pastoral Letters of His Grace John-Michael or His Eminence Metr. Philip.

"for peace in the world, let us beseech the Lord"

Herb

Shlomo Joe,
The Romanian Eparch as well as the Maronite Patriarch are saying that this is an unjust war for their members to participate in. Therefore, under what you have posted, they will not be carrying out their duty (which within the USCMJ) permits questioning unjust and illegal orders.

Poosh BaShlomo,
Yuhannon

Dear Herb:

You wrote:



I am just curious.

If you mean that the USCCB's membership is limited to Roman Catholic bishops or that Bishop Gregory's statement reflects only those of the Latin bishops, you must have missed my prefatory statement above which pointed out that 21 Eastern Catholic Eparchs/Bishops are, also, members of the U.S. Catholic Conference.

Is this not the case for the Canadian Conference of Catholic Bishops?

I thought worldwide national episcopal conferences include BOTH Latin Bishops AND Eastern Eparchs.

AmdG