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Etnick - that's it - pre-cuts  ie previously prepared particles
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Those who attend one of the few Ruthenian parishes using honest-to-God prosphora should consider themselves extraordinarily blessed. At least two communities of nuns of my acquaintance market pre-cut particles of bread, which is usually rock-solid before it is actually used.
Father Serge
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Fr. David bless!
Will antidoron be restored with the new Divine Liturgy?
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When I was an altar boy many moons ago, at my Ruthenian parish, the priest would come in the sacristy as we were vesting, with a used margerine tub that had little cubes of bread in it.
He would simply pour those on to the diskos, and BANG! instant proskomidia. I kid you not! He did this every Sunday! I just cringe reading that. Is the use of ready made particles allowed in the typikon, or did this just priest just change the practice himself? I have to admit when I first read someone post about the use of pre-cuts I thought they were kidding. It just sounded outlandish to me. Little did I know...
Last edited by Ilian; 11/26/06 11:48 PM.
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When I was an altar boy many moons ago, at my Ruthenian parish, the priest would come in the sacristy as we were vesting, with a used margerine tub that had little cubes of bread in it.
He would simply pour those on to the diskos, and BANG! instant proskomidia. I kid you not! He did this every Sunday! I just cringe reading that. Is the use of ready made particles allowed in the typikon, or did this just priest just change the practice himself? I have to admit when I first read someone post about the use of pre-cuts I thought they were kidding. It just sounded outlandish to me. Little did I know... Not knowing much as a twelve year old kid who never saw anything else, how did I know it was wrong. What's that about hindsight being 20/20?
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Please excuse my lack of knowledge, but I have some questions that may appear insensitive for an Orthodox person to ask, and let me be very clear: I do not mean to offend anyone, nor do I have some sort of 'hidden agenda'. I just want to understand as well as my limited intelligence can some of the points of this debate...
There is a term being used here which I do not completely understand: 'pre-cuts'. can someone explain this to me please? Is this some sort of Ruthenian tradition which is not shared by me in the Greek Archdiocese?
There also have been some posts indicating a lack of antidoron, or something like that. Have the churches in the Ruthenian areas not have this tradition? What happens to the rest of the prosphora loaf?
Is there a different manner of preparing the Lamb in the Ruthenian proskomide that does not provide for the extra bread that I use for antidoron?
Again, I am just curious, and am trying to understand some of the points discussed here. Please forgive me if I offend anyone---it is not my intention as a 'guest among you' to antagonize my hosts!
+Fr. Chris Welcome, Fr. Chris! No need to apologize. This is something that is not discussed too often and many people in the pews probably don't realize that pre-cut pieces are used instead of the traditional prosphora. It's something that bothers some of us greatly. We read the calls to return to tradition in the documents of the Church but here is a blatant latinization that continues on with no sign of any plans to restore authentic tradition. Shouldn't this be a part of our liturgical reform? A suggestion. If you're thinking of what to get your pastor for Christmas...get him a prosphora seal and include a respectful note saying you'd like to see prosphora traditions restored instead of the use of pre-cut pieces.
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I suggest getting two prosphora seals - one for the Pastor, and one for yourself. With the seal you will have for yourself, you then proceed to learn to bake the prosphora, and supply the Altar with it each Sunday and Holy Day - while you're at it, organize a few other people to do the same.
Fr. Serge
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Slava Isusu Krestu Hello DTBROWN If you would llike a good recipie for prosfora, try this site http://www.saintelias.com/ca/index.php from St Elias Ukrainian Greek Catholic Church. You may have to scroll or search a little bit to find it but it is very good. Unworthy Nycholaij
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Slava Isusu Khrestu Oops, I searched the site and could not find it. It was there at one time. Sorry Unworthy NYcholaij Try this site http://www.prosphora.org/then go to >recipe then > Archpriest Roman Galadza's Prosphora Recipe which should be http://www.prosphora.org/page29.htmlHOpe I am not too confusing for I am new at this copmputer thing. Unworthy Nycholaij
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Not knowing much as a twelve year old kid who never saw anything else, how did I know it was wrong.
What's that about hindsight being 20/20? There's no way for you to have known. I'm still curious if this is an allowed practice or if it was an individual deviation. Our Pani normally bakes our prosphora, but my wife does it every so often. We did recently because a friend (our children's Godfather) lost his Mother. We gave prosphora to have her commemorated during the proskomedia as its nearing 40 days.
Last edited by Ilian; 11/27/06 11:27 AM.
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