www.byzcath.org Forums Faith & Christian Life Faith & Theology Pro Multis means "For Many"

I'm sorry for the tone.

"I'm sorry for the tone."

You're forgiven. No offense taken. One of the advantages of having gray hair is that the skin tends to get thicker! Sometimes our enthusiasm for our beliefs causes us to present them in ways which are not constructive. In a forum such as this, where Eastern Rite Catholics and a number of Orthodox and Latin Rite Catholics have the opportunity to interact, we all have the chance to do just what our respective hierarchs have asked us to do, in light of the ongoing inter Orthodox/Catholic dialog, namely discuss our views of the Faith in love so that we can come to understand each other better. The reason I asked the question I did was because the topic of the proper exercise of the Petrine ministry is precisely what our hierarchs are discussing in those talks. And without some form of agreement on that, there is very little point in going forward with talks on the few theological differences which still separate us.

Ok, I also apologize for the comments, which were needlessly sarcastic. I also apologize to Fr. Anthony and Papaflessas for causing trouble, though I think I was provoked some small way earlier in the thread, but due to my lack of self-control chose to take it out in this thread, which was inappropriate.

I also want to specifically state that I had no idea, until a few minutes ago, that Papaflessas was a priest. I'm very sorry.

My saintly former Bishop (God rest his soul) was a very noted scholar when it came to Biblical languages. From time to time when he would celebrate the Sacred Mysteries for us in English, he would always come to that point of the Mass, and say: "for many". However he would always make the clarification at breakfast that of course the implications was there "for all!"
Surely Christ died for ALL! Not just for the many. Such a notion is highly Calvinistic in my estimation and we would do well to steer clear of that whatever the more correct translation might be.
Stephanos I

I do confess one thing regarding my own short comings...which is anger and or short tempered...but I've been praying and highly recommend something from reading Cassian (and some Benedictine direction-assistance)and use it in addition to the Jesus Prayer..."God come to my assistance, Lord make haste to help me" which is a familar to those who recite the Roman Breviary/LOTH...

james

ps-Yes He died for all but will He find many with true faith ?

Garret,
If my posting goaded you, I apologize as that was not my intention. when I wrote
"Anytime the Roman Church moves back closer to Orthodoxy, it is a good thing."
I was referring to Orthodoxy as defined by Webster: "conforming to established doctrine especially in religion". When I see evidence that the Roman Church is returning to practices that are "Orthodox" as opposed to such travesties as the recently discussed Halloween Mass and the video of the spectacle in Orange county, I applaud the efforts of the Roman Church.

Alexandr

I strongly agree with the letter of Card. Arinze. "For many" it the best translation of "pro multis".
Nevertheless in the Polish translation of Roman Missal, there is "za wielu" = "pro multis". So only in English, Italian, German and other Missals there is a necessity to correct the translation...

As Father Zuhlsdorf pointed out, ironically, the French got the translation right: "pour le moultitude."

Logos Teen

Maybe I should clarify what I meant by such a notion.
Not the translation of "pro multis", but the idea that Christ died only for the elect.
Stephanos I

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