www.byzcath.org Forums Faith & Christian Life The Christian East & West Eastern Catholic vs Eastern Orthodox

Andrasi,

You bring up some interesting questions.

Just as a point of clarification: Eastern Catholics, by virtue of our communion with the See of Rome are required to accept as part of the deposit of faith the dogmas defined as such by the councils and by the authoritative magisterium in union with Rome. We cannot regard them as mere theological opinions (or certainly not as erroneous or heretical) and still remain in full communion with the Catholic Church. These dogmas are to be properly understood, however, from the perspective of our own theological and liturgical heritage and we are not required to accept as dogmatic all of the theological presuppositions which lead to the dogmatic definition. Rather, we receive them through the lens of our own Eastern patrimony.

The Catholic East tries to faithfully represent and advocate for the Eastern perspective within the communion of Churches in the One Church of Christ, as was evidenced by many of the Eastern Catholic council fathers at Vatican II, most especially the Melkite Greek Catholic Patriarch Maximos IV Saigh. (See Fr. Saba Shofany's The Melkites at the Vatican Council II: Contributions of the Melkite Prelates to Vatican Council II [curledup.com] . It was for this reason that Vatican II was able to properly correct the rather one-sided theological emphases of the Vatican I definitions on the ministry of the pope of Rome in the broader communion of Churches.

Returning to your question, when you read the early Church fathers of the first 1000 years of Christian history, communion with Rome, the Holy See of Peter and Paul, was regarded as essential to the Church's catholic nature. Rome was granted by God the charism to be the matrix of ecclesial unity between the Churches, the pope of Rome being the "servant of the servants of God". As ecclesial bodies who share in the Orthodox heritage of faith, we believe that our communion with Rome is as much for her benefit as it is for our own - ALTHOUGH, the Church of Rome has not always fully appreciated the value of what we bring to the comunion of Churches nor has it historically always respected our rights and patrimony. Vatican II and recent incumbents of the episcopal throne of Rome (most especially Pope John Paul the Great) have gone much further in affirming our place "at the table" of unity.

Additionally, Rome has stood faithfully and taken prophetic and authoritative positions on a whole host of issues, particularly in the area of Christian social teaching and bio-medical ethics, where sometimes Orthodoxy was either silent or was unable to speak with "una voce", that is with "one voice", to the needs of our age. I know that many of us remain in communion with her in part because we have witnessed the power of this apostolic boldness which is so desparately needed in our time. With that said, there appears to be a growing appreciation in some Orthodox circles for the need to recover a unified Orthodox magisterial voice. I think this is a welcome development, but I think it has some way to go.

As to the origin of the phrase, "Orthodox in Communion with Rome", I'm not sure where that originated. But I believe it expresses our essence (and our aspiration) perfectly. We are "right worshipping" and "right believing" Christians who represent the other two great theological streams of Christian tradition, Greek and Syrian, in communion with the Church of Peter and Paul and the vicar of Peter, the pope of Rome.

God bless,

Gordo

Gordo,
Thank you immensly for your reply. Where does one find books on the early church fathers? Can you recommend something to start with?
Lots to learn here!

"Returning to your question, when you read the early Church fathers of the first 1000 years of Christian history, communion with Rome, the Holy See of Peter and Paul, was regarded as essential to the Church's catholic nature"

Originally posted by SAHMommy...



SAHMommy, maybe the below research will help settle your doubts one way or the other about remaining within the Catholic Communion or continuing as a catechumen in the Orthodox Church.

***

The Catholic Communion is truly Universal in more than one sense of the word. Where else (certainly not amongst the Eastern Orthodox) can one have clerics and religious who are active members of two faiths, being both Catholic and Zen Buddhist?

Where else (aside from the Anglican Communion that is) can one find religious such as Sister Elaine MacInnes, OLM (Our Ladys Missionaries). This 81-year-old Roman Catholic sister is not only a nun but is also a Zen Buddhist Roshi, that is, a Zen Master.

See: here, [buddhistchannel.tv] or here. [buddhistchannel.tv]

I found the last paragraph from the above interview with Sr. Elaine where she offers thanks for the lax oversight of Rome particularly enlightening: MacInnes says she receives no flak from Catholic higher-ups for embracing another religion. Thank God they've kept silent, she says with a laugh.


Nor is Sister Elaine alone, as there are at least two other Roshi (Zen Master) sisters that share Sr. MacInnes bi-faith calling: Sr. Janet Richardson, CJSP and Sr. Rosalie McQuade, CJSP (Congregation of the Sisters of St. Joseph of Peace).

See: here, [buddhistchannel.tv] here, [zenpeacemakers.org] and here. [csjp.org]

Sr. Janet, besides being a Zen Master, is also a speaker, having offered her thoughts at the 1999 Christ and Buddha: Weaving a Path for a New Millennium gathering at the RC Mercy Center retreat/conference center sponsored by the Sisters of Mercy in Burlingame, California. Sister spoke at two plenary sessions on Christ and Buddha: Language and Symbol of the traditions II and Today & Tomorrow: Weaving a Path for the New Millennium and led the Shikan Taza workshop.

See: here, [conferencerecording.com] and here. [mercy-center.org]

Sr. Janet has been busy in other areas as well. Besides assisting Sr. Rosalie along her path to becoming a Roshi, she has also transmitted her Dharma to another sister, making her a Zen Sensei, that is Teacher, this person being Sr. Rose Mary Dougherty, SSND (School Sisters of Notre Dame), who is the Senior Fellow for Spiritual Guidance at the Shalem Institute for Spiritual Formation, an ecumenical community founded by an Episcopal priest in Bethesda, Maryland.

See: here, [zenpeacemakers.org] here, [shalem.org] and here. [shalem.org]

Then we have Sr. Jean Kasparbauer, FSPA (Franciscan Sisters of Perpetual Adoration), practitioner of Intuitive Soulwork and Radionics and one of a group of seminar facilitators for the various new-age offerings at the feminist Christine Center (as opposed to Christ Center) founded by the Wheaton Franciscan Sisters in Willard, Wisconsin.

See: here, [christinecenter.org] here, [christinecenter.org] and here. [heartofgodhermitage.org]

On the male religious side, the Catholic Communion is similarly blessed. Witness Priest and Zen Master Fr. Robert Kennedy, SJ (Society of Jesus), who leads Christian Zen retreats where he opines that: Zen reminds us that Christian contemplation is not a looking at Christ, or a following of Christ, but a transformation into Christ. The practice of Zen restores our participation in the world to direct experience, pure attending, pure consciousness. Heaven forbid that Christ actually be looked to or followed.

See: here. [kennedyzen.tripod.com]

At the above site, scroll down and view the photograph of Fr. Kennedy taken by Br. Brian Rooney, OC (Order of Carmelites). In the photograph, Fr. Kennedy, acting as Zen Roshi (Master), is seen initiating Fr. Kevin Hunt, OCSO (Order of Cistercians of the Strict Observance), a Trappist monk, to the ranks of Sensei (Zen Teacher).

See: here, [monasticdialog.com] and here. [findarticles.com]

Aside from Fr. Hunt, we also have following in the footsteps of Fr. Kennedy the Redemptorist Priest and Zen Sensei (Teacher) Fr. Greg Mayers, CSSR (Congregation of the Most Holy Redeemer) who instructs on the Three Pillars of Zen: Teaching, Practice and Enlightenment.

Both Fr. Kennedy & Fr. Mayers Zen Retreats/Instructions were offered in 2003 at the Cenacle Retreat House in Warrenville, Illinois. Presently, they are offering Tai Chi Chih for Everyone! and Reiki I & II by another religious, Sr. Anotnia Cooper, OSF (Order St. Francis).

See: here, [catholiccitizens.org] and here. [shopping.cenacle.org]

Not to be forgotten is a European Jesuit, Fr. Niklaus Brantschen, SJ (Society of Jesus), who as a Roshi has passed on his Dharma in at least one other Catholic religious: Sr. Anna Gamma, StKW (Schwestern vom Katharinenwerk), a.k.a. Sister Zen.

See: here, [zenpeacemakers.org] and here, [spuren.ch] or here. [translate.google.com]

Then there is another Redemptorist Priest & Roshi, Fr. Patrick Hawk, CSSR (Congregation of the Most Holy Redeemer) whom I have previously commented on, so will therefore only list a few links below.

See: here, [desertrenewal.org] here, [io.com] and here. [home.comcast.net]

Fr. Hawk in turn leads us to his own Roshi, another European, Fr. Willigis Jaeger, OSB (Order of St. Benedict). Aside from being both a Benedictine priest & monk, Fr. Jaeger is also one of the most well known of the Catholic-Zen Maters. This notoriety stems from the fact that in 2002 Cardinal Ratzinger censured Fr. Jaeger, ordering him to cease all public activities, including lectures, courses and publications. This order apparently does not carry much weight, because Fr. Jaeger has just this last August published: Mysticism for Modern Times: Conversations with Willigis Jaeger (Liguori Publications, 2006-08-21).

See: here, [willigis-jaeger.de] here, [natcath.com] and here. [willigis-jaeger.de]

***


~Isaac (busily donning an asbestos suit)

Isaac,

An asbestos suit is something you will need if you continue in this manner. We can find men and women in both Catholicism and Orthodoxy who have not kept the Faith and, indeed, have crossed into heresy.

Are you really suggesting that the criteria for determining the true faith is how well individual members of that faith keep it?

--

Andrasi,

My recommendation to you is to 1) pray, 2) participate in the Divine Services 3) study the theology of both Churches (where it is in common and where it differs), 4) study history and 5) pray some more. Do all of this under the direction of a spiritual father (of course!).

Admin