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#21689 04/23/03 08:37 PM
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Dr. John:

How about you NOT keep it a secret?

We in the West need what you've got. We need to learn from each other. The only way we will finally heal the wounds of long centuries of separation is by learning from each other, praying with each other, and LIVING the common sources we have in the Fathers and the faith of the early Church.

The sad thing is that many who write for CNS and other media outlets are showing the same poor knowledge of their own tradition that they show when writing about the Eastern Church. Just the fruit of so many years of poor overall catechesis about not only doctrine but also praxis.

Please don't give up. Keep praying for all of us. And then keep your sense of humor.

BOB

#21690 04/24/03 12:28 AM
Joined: Apr 2002
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Dr. Alex Roman!

Maraming-maraming Salamat sa inyong paliwanag!
(Many thanks for your explanation).

I really have been looking for these basic points about Eastern Icons. I am aware that every feature in an icon represents a theological truth.

Also, thanks for informing that "while there is no impediment for Western Catholics to venerate icons, there actually IS a canonical impediment for the East to honour religious statuary."

Amado was right to point out that Our Lady of the Passion (Mother of Perpetual Help) is well venerated here. You should see the throngs flocking to the Church in Manila every Wednesday.

The re-patriation of the icon of the Theotokos of Kazan to the Russian Orthodox Church is indeed a conciliatory gesture from the Patriarch of the west. Let us hope & pray that this will be received in Christian Charity and without any policital colors. I believe Pope Wojtyla is sincere in this gesture. Isn't this reminiscent of one of the previous Pope giving the skull (relic) of St. Andrew to the Patriarch and Greek Orthodox Church of Constantinople some years back?

Again, many thanks for your patient and exhaustive explanation! I guess I will have to email you directly next time if I have things I cannot understand regarding the East.

Pray for me, a sinner!

#21691 04/24/03 07:41 AM
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I think that Dr. John has hit close to the core of the matter when he hopes that we will "steadfastly resist the de-sanctification of images."

If, strictly speaking, an icon is an image, then we come to a conclusion that there are holy images and unholy images. Or, sacred images and non-sacred images.

The world, the pornographers, the singers and actors, and all of the others of their ilk, bombard us with a host of unholy images.

So in any image used for the glorification of God or the edification of His people, let us hope that it is "holy" or "sacred" and judge it by that standard alone.

a blessed Pascha to all!

With love in Christ,
Andrew

#21692 04/24/03 10:37 AM
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Dear Antonio,

Magandang Umaga!

You are welcome!

The return of the Icon of Our Lady of Kazan by the Pope is surely an act of great magnanimity on the Pontiff's part.

However, nothing goes without political impact . . .

And we in our Eparchy had a similar "return" of an Orthodox icon that I wanted to share with you and others here.

The miraculous (Ukrainian) Orthodox icon of "Akhtyrka" (near the city of Kharkiv) is unique in that it shows the Mother of God praying before her Crucified Son.

324 miracles are officially confirmed by Orthodox authorities in connection to this icon and it is only one of five or six to actually have the personal seal of the Tsar of Russia.

This icon was covered in gold plate, something the Austro-Hungarian government ordered removed to pay for military expenses in the first world war. The icon then disappeared in the second world war, but turned up in the hands of a Bulgarian artist.

A Ukrainian museum proprietor here, a friend of my mother's, bought the icon without knowing what it was to hang up in his Kurelek collection of the Passion of Christ drawings by that artist (whose cause for canonization is being promoted by the Canadian bishops, FYI).

Orthodox authorities later confirmed that the icon truly is the original Theotokos of Akhtyrka (Feast: July 15).

One of our (Eastern Catholic) bishops was later able to procure this icon and return it to Kharkiv where I believe it was placed in another museum. I don't know if it still is there, and I would hope not.

The point is, and this doesn't apply to the Kazan icon, what would have been better? To enshrine it in an Eastern Catholic Church here or somewhere or to have it hang in another museum? Or perhaps it could have been arranged to return it directly to Church authorities?

There are also Roman Catholic shrines that are in Orthodox hands and I'm thinking, right now, of the former RC monastery and icon of Our Lady of Mt Carmel in Horodyshchenske in Ukraine.

My point is that the most important consideration here is not necessarily the return of such shrines, but to ensure that they are HONOURED properly as befits them.

And I would maintain that if given the choice between enshrining an Orthodox icon in an Eastern Catholic Church or returning it to Orthodox museum proprietors, the former is to be preferred, even though not politically correct.

Alex

#21693 04/24/03 07:30 PM
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When I went to Italy, they had icons everywhere!! Real icons. The majority of them were of the Theotokos and Child but there were a good many of the Pantocrator and a few of St. Joseph and St. John the Baptist. I was pleasantly surprised.

Logos Teen

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