www.byzcath.org Forums Faith & Christian Life Faith & Theology Pontifical Divine Liturgy 1966

Thanks, that clears it up.

I don't understand the negative statement about "Byzanophiles".

Ray S. has posted some comments from his pastor, Father Michael, that I would like to comment upon.

I agree with Father Michael that 1966 was a different era in our Church and that it is wrong to criticize a time gone by. Byzantine Catholics of that day were an incredibly faithful people and I am thankful for them. It always seems best to simply note that our Church adopted many Latin customs that we should not have adopted and then look forward to a full restoration of an authentic Byzantine patrimony.

I also agree with Father Michael that a few on this forum (and in all public forums and parish coffee hours) are almost zealot-like in their rush to condemn and criticize.

I disagree strongly with Father Michael that we are a brood of vipers! If he said such a thing he is guilty of what he has just condemned others for. His anti-Orthodox postings on this forum were certainly opposite of the teaching and example of the late Pope John Paul the Great. Father Michael had a few more criticisms that were harsher then the worst posted here that I will not mention. I will also say that we are all human and that Father Michael has a reputation as a good pastor. Nevertheless I invite Father Michael to spend his energy building up the Church. Internet forums like this are, at times, a two-edged sword. This website and forum offer great possibilities for evangelization. Both have led people into the Church.

Admin

Dear Ray S.,

Please remind Father Michael that it is not nice to generalize.

I remember him on this forum and I was always very polite to him.
I also think that he does a very good job on 'Light of the East', and I remember telling him so.

Wishing him all the best and many blessings in his ministry.

Alice

Post deleted

===

Christ is Born!

The distance is both greater and shorter depending on the parish, priest and individual Greek Catholic. That's the paradox of it all. There does seem to be a fear of Holy Orthodoxy among some Greek Catholics of the Ruthenian persuasion. This might have been amplified by the events of the 1890s and 1930s, still history is history. We were under Constantinople until 1646. I believe we are still Orthodox (in communion with Rome). If not, then we are Roman Catholic or something else.

Nice job on the website Ray!!! I'm listening to the Pontifical Liturgy right now and it is beautiful.

Glorify Him!

I agree with JohnS' comments. I pray that soon through God's mercy we in our communion with the Apostolic See of Rome will also be restored to full communion with the Patriarchate of Constantinople.

As to spending our energies criticizing the minutia of the past, I think it is pointless unless we hope to learn something for the present and future.

Great work, Ray. My compliments to you and Father Michael for sharing this history and a small window into the common life of your parish with all of us.

Gordo

May crownings were all the rage at one time, but largely died out several decades ago - does anyone know of any parishes which still have them? The "image" Father Deacon refers to is/was almost invariably a statue.

The whole thing was an imitation of pre-Christian spring rituals involving the selection and veneration of a "Queen of the May". This business was largely found in Western Europe (there are still a few songs in honor of the "May Queen" sung in Middle English). I last encountered the pre-Christian version about 40 years ago when some overenthusiastic students organized a dawn "May Queen" celebration outside the house of the president of the university. I didn't attend this festivity - didn't even know such a thing was planned - but I'll never forget the response of the "May Queen" to a reporter who asked why they had held this bash. She said: "I felt that there isn't enough paganism on campus!"

As for where I was at the time the pictures were taken, I was certainly not inhabiting a Latin parish. I will happily plead guilty to the charge of "Byzantinophilia", even though that's not my only passion (I also love good Chinese cuisine, good sea food, znammeny chant, the Old Ritualists, and Blessed Charles of Austria).

Fr Serge

Christ is Born!

I think it is important to realize that not everyone who reads or posts here is a member of the Ruthenian Metropolia of Pittsburgh! There are Christians from every Apostolic tradition here, and many from Russian, Ukrainian, Syrian and Greek churches who actually do have a notion of what to expect and can be expected to register genuine surprise.

What may seem to be an expression of "zealotry" may be nothing more than surprise. I have to admit, it takes a strong stomach to see what the Ruthenians have been through. Thanks be to God the tide has shifted.

Now if we could only get the evangelism in high gear!

Michael

Fr. Serge,

I have seen icons "crowned" for May crowning, although as you state statues were more common, easier to crown I suppose. Nailing riza-style crowns to icons makes me a bit uneasy.

Fr. Deacon Lance

How common is this?

Very common among the generation that suffered through the Johnstown split. Remember families were split in two over this division and for some the pain is very real. Even after Metropolitans Basil and Nicholas have exchanged the kiss of peace their are still brothers on each side of this that do not talk to each other.

I guess it's odd, because I don't sense any of this in my parish or among other people I talk to (and we have people that go back to that generation). I have a friend at church who grew up in the Ruthenian church and he said he doesn't see any real difference on one side or the other now that he is in the ACROD. Metropolitan Nicholas it seems to me has extended a hand of friendship and a desire to work in common in some areas.

I just don't get it.

This thread has skipped tracks like a broken record...

Back to the original inquiry I made a few pages back...Does anyone know of or at least have a photo of the LP cover (if there was one)? I have some original LP recordings of this liturgy, but with no jacket(cover)

Thanks

Steve,

It is my understanding that Father Michael made this recording on his own. I might have my facts wrong. Therefore, there is no LP cover.

Interesting! I had always assumed there was a record cover of some sort. Maybe they were provided originally in plain covers. Was Fr. Michael the producer of the LP? I presume this was a personal publication effort given the label information.

The LP I have reads thus on the label:

SELECTIONS FROM THE
PONTIFICAL DIVINE LITURGY
25th Jubilee of Ordination
10th Jubilee of Consecration

Most Rev. Stephen J. Kocisko, D.D.
Sunday, September 25, 1966
Cathedral of St. Michael the Archangel
Passaic, New Jersey
side 1
TR35-5259
side 2
TR 45-5260