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How has the New Liturgy effected your Spiritual Life? How have those responsible for the New Liturgy effected your Spiritual Life?

The New Liturgy, along with another serious matter compelled me to visit a Roman Novus Ordo Parish. I attended a Roman Novus Ordo Liturgy at 4:00 P.M. today. (According to the Bullitin it fulfills Sunday Obligation)

I made many observations and even took a few notes.

While still in the parking lot, I noticed that 95% of the people going to Church were at least 55 or 60 years of age. I have been told many times by different people that the reason Saturday night Mass (for the purpose of fulfilling the Sunday obligation) was started was to enable pius Catholics that were forced to work on Sundays to have the opportunity to worship, fulfill the Sunday Obligation, and receive to Communion. It was apparent that % of people that were present and still in the work force was very small. Those in attendance that are in the work force are not neccasarily forced to work Sundays.

The Church does not have a Communion Rail or any boundry between Earth/the Nave and Heaven/the Sanctuary.

The Church is built in a semi circle fashion. The Church follows Neo Iconoclasm principles. It has a large Crucifix hanging at the rear of the sanctuary and perhaps 2 statues hidden in the rear of the Nave.

There were 2 Altar boys and 1 Altar girl. The Altar Girl and Altar boys all wore Albs and what I definately consider to be Pectoral Crosses.

The opening processional hymn was "All Are Welcome", by Marty Haugen. All Are Welcome was played on a piano. To me the lyrics of "All Are Welcome" did not seem to Catholic and did not offer Praise, Honor, Worship, or Glory to the Trinity.

Immediately after the opening hymn "All Are Welcome", the Celebrant Priest said something like, "And I would like to reiterate the Refrain, All Are Welcome."

The "I confess to Almighty God and to you my Brothers and Sisters that I have sinned through my own fault....." prayer was omitted/not used (unfortunately it is not required either.)

The Kyrie was not sang. It was an Ad Lib Kyrie by the Priest. It went something like this "Ad Lib, Ad Lib, Ad Lib Lord Have Mercy, response Lord Have Mercy, Ad Lib, Ad Lib, Ad Lib Christ Have Mercy, Ad Lib, Ad Lib, Ad Lib, Lord Have Mercy"

The Organ was used for the Gloria.

"All the Ends of the Earth" was played on the piano.

The Sermon was in part about the Wedding of Cana. The Priest interpreted the changing of the water into wine to be a sign of Christ changing the older, plainer religion of Judaism into the newer, more full religion Christianity. But the Sermon was mostly about not critisizing the Church because we are the Church and to critisize the Church is to critisize ourselves.


"We are Many Parts" from the Unity songs section of the hymnal was the Oferatory hymn.

The Communion Hymn was played on the guitar and was something that could perhaps be titled "My Heart Sings?" Which is also by Marty Haugen.

Several Priests appeared to help give Communion. It looked like the Priests were giving the Body, while the Lay people had the Chalices with the Blood. At some point I noticed that though there were many people still left in the Communion lines, the celebrant was no longer/or never was distributing Communion. The lay people and the non celebrating/non-concelebrationg Priests were still distributing Communion. At the conclusion of Communion it looked like a Lay Man was pouring several Chalices into one Chalice. I don not know if he was cleansing them, though I had heard that the Pope removed the Dispensation for Lay People in English Speaking countries to cleanse the Chalice.

After Communion, the celebrant told a joke. (This is not a joke, it is true.) The joke was about a husband and wife. Thus husband looked to be about 60 but he was really 78. The punch line was something like for 50 years the wife went inside and the husband went outside.

The Recessional Hymn was something that may be called "Come My Sister, come my Beloved" or perhaps it is called "My Heart Sings?"

After the Roman Novus Ordo Liturgy I noticed the Altar Girl and Altar Boys unvesting. The Sacristy was in the back of the Nave, I think that the Priest was also in the same Sacristy. Anyway, after the Altar Girl unvested of her Alb, I noticed what she was wearing underneath. It was not much. If she is lucky, her skirt may have gone 1/3 of the way to her knee.

While leaving I looked for a place to light a candle. I wanted to light a candle, so I asked where the candles were to light. They do not have ANY candles to light in the Church. Not even the corny electric, put money in the box, push the button and the electric light comes on for a week kind. I was told that I could exit the Church and walk aways to the Chapel. At the Chapel I could light a candle. So, I walked 100ft or so to the Chapel, entered the Chapel and could not find any candles to light. So I went out the Chapel door opposite to the door I entered and found a seperate room, accesible only from the ouside that shares a common wall with the Chapel and has 3 glass walls. This was the place to light candles. There were 2 candle stands with 36, 7 day candles on each stand, plus some tea light style candles. All of the 7 day candles were lit.

I apologize for all of my mistakes and typos in my previous post.

WOW!!! Protestant under the Pope!!!! Hospodi Pomiluj!!!

Makes me appreciate my parish so much more!

Right idea, wrong direction. You don't need to go west. You need to go further EAST. Orthodoxy is available, and the liturgy hasn't changed . . .

-- John

The New Liturgy should fit in quite well.

CDL

Actually, I went to a 4:00 P.M. Novus Ordo. (Which, again, according to the Bulletin fulfills my "Sunday Obligation") This left plenty of time to attend 6:00 P.M. Vespers, 7:15 A.M. Orthros, and the Divine Liturgy of St. John Chrysostom after Orthros. (Note, this was the Liturgy of St. John Chrysostom, not The Liturgy of Priest David, Bishop Andrew, Bishop John, Metropolitan Archbishop Basil, Bishop William, and marionettes.)

I would also like to add that Pre-Cuts were not used. Orthros, Divine Liturgy, Sermon, and antidoran Distribution lasted from approximately 7:15 to approximately 11:00 A.M.

All of the Divine Services were beautiful and reverent. However, the lack of congregational singing and the way that 90% of the congregation were very, very late for Liturgy was disturbing. The psalti are amazing, however participation by the whole Church is severely lacking.

That sounds like a horrible Church going experience.

I am back from attending 4:00 P.M. Novus Ordo Church Service and 6:00 Orthodox Vespers. I attended a different Novus Ordo Church and a different Orthodox Church for Vespers than last Saturday.

This Novus Ordo building also follows the NeoIconoclast archetectural methods. In the main part of the Building there were some stained glass windows, one of which depicted Jesus Christ, "the good thief", and "the bad thief" crucified. There was also a large Crucifix on one wall. This Crucifix had Jesus nailed through his feet and left hand while he bent down extending a dove with his right hand.

There were three Altar boys and one Altar girl. Charitable people might even say that the Altar girl looked cute in her alb. None wore a pectoral Cross.

Unlike most NeoIconoclast Buildings that I have been in, this Building did not have a raised area against one wall as a Sanctuary without Communion Rails or Iconostas. This Building featured an Altar in the middle of the building upon an approximately fifteen foot octagon wooden stage. There were also a few other raised "stages" in the middle of the building including one with a Lectern and one for the Priest's chair. There were no actual "pews" but rather rows of joined padded chairs with hymnals in cubbyholes between chairs. There were no kneelers. On two opposite ends of the main part of the Building there were closed partitions. It appears that the main part of the Building could be expanded by opening these partitions.

The Sermon was about "building bridges" and fighting prejudice.

This was an "organ Mass" however they do have a piano and a drum set in plain sight.

The Altar girl seemed to do a good job carrying the Chalice to the Altar at the Great Entrance oops I mean the Offeratory.

During Communion almost everyone sat. This did not include all of the lay people distributing the Holy Gifts, nor myself. One of the Ordinary Extradinary Eucharistic Ministers saw me standing during Communion. So he walked to a row of chairs two rows away and offered me Communion across the rows of chairs.

After Communion I watched as several women chugged the remainder of the Blood and wiped the interior of the Chalices. I was pleased that the African Priest did not tell a post Communion Joke. (The American Priest, last week did tell a post Communion joke)

After the Service, I inquired as to where to light a candle. I was told that there was a place to light a candle in the Vestibule. Keep in mind that this building is not in the Cruciform or plain rectangle form. While on my quest to light a candle, I noticed an expensive looking framed print Icon of Pope John the 23rd. After a minute or so I found a place that had an unasthetically appealing Theotokos with Baby Jesus three dimensional image thing. In front of this "thing" representing the Theotokos and Baby Jesus was a two rowed candle stand with many different colored (read hideous rainbow colors) glass seven day candle containers. Not a single colored glass candle holder
had a lit candle in it. According to the Church Bulletin, this Building had more than 1200 people attend Novus Ordo Services last weekend. Yet there was not one lit candle! On top of that, there was not a single unlit candle in the whole candle holder. I asked someone, "Where are the Candles? How do I light a Candle?" I was told to go to the Church Office to buy a Candle, and then someone walked me to the Church Office. I purchased a seven day candle in clear plastic candle jar for $5. The girl that sold the candle to me then lit the Candle. I walked about 100ft to the multi colored glass candle stand in front of the three dimensional Theotokos with Baby Jesus image thing and put my candle in the middle, rear glass holder.

I said a prayer and departed for Vespers.

I'm assuming you're Byzantine? Why do you keep subjecting yourself to that nonsense? Are you a glutton for punishment?

My stomach is still recovering from last weeks disaster!

I don't think you need to continue this exercise of comparing styles of liturgy, Roman Catholic and Orthodox. I think you know how bad the Novus Ordo liturgy can be. I think you also know the basic differences between Catholicism and Orthodoxy. I think you know what you need to do.

-- John

When I entered a period of disernment I followed this practice as well. Attending Roman Catholic liturgies (which I had not done for a couple of years prior) really helped me focus.

Michael

InCogNeat3s,

There are plenty of examples of good Latin parishes, with good Latin priests who do not turn jokes into Collects, with good iconography, good music and faithful laity. They do exist! Let's not turn this into a Latin bashing scenario. Quite frankly, I've lost my taste for it.

Nor do I agree with what John seems to infer - that this somehow defines the "differences between Catholicism and Orthodoxy". Nonsense (or "nunsense" in certain cases) does not reflect the ideals of Latin Catholicism, or any other form of Catholicism. I believe that the right man for the Chair is in place to complete the restoration of Latin Catholicism desired by Pope John Paul II and called for by the Council of Vatican II.

As to the state of the Metropolia, I am grateful that I was able to find a home outside of it while still remaining Greek Catholic. The activities of the Metropolia does not reflect the activities of the whole of Eastern Catholicism (which is one of the issues). Why not visit another Eastern Catholic jurisdiction in your area? We travel an hour to services and are happy to do so.

You might even consider approaching the UGCC, the Romanians or the Melkite eparchies regarding starting a mission in your area. Would that not be a worthy project to consider?

God bless,

Gordo