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A picture is worth a thousand words! Father Loya's arguments should be attended to. And as they say, the proof is in the pudding. Look at all the children!

I have been to Annunciation and there was standing room only!

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Originally Posted by Blessed Theodore
John,

Bishop Andrew outlawed the official Ruthenian Divine Liturgy ten years ago. When he was in Parma he outlawed it there. The official Ruthenian Divine Liturgy has been under assault by our bishops for almost our whole time in the United States. He has actually disciplined priests who have taken the full Liturgy.

Harrisburg was the big holdout in Passaic until Father Shear died.

There are a small number of parishes elsewhere in the country. I�m not going to provide a list because I don�t want the bishops disciplining those priests for following Rome�s directives. But if they use the Revised Liturgicon they will not be able to take the full Liturgy because the Revised Liturgicon leaves out a lot.

Don�t give up on your Church. It�s not a done deal if we unite and appeal to Rome. The Ruthenian Liturgy is worth fighting for.

Blessed Theodore

BT,

I understand what you're saying and feeling for those few parishes that may follow the 1964 recension to the letter. My parish for instance, has a fuller liturgy now than it did prior to Bishop Andrew implementing the changes 10 years ago.

I think that it's been mentioned somewhere that the bishop is the guardian of the liturgy and chief liturgist for his diocese. If that is the case, priests not following what the bishop has set forth are disobedient to him, who is their master and father in Christ. The bishop, OTOH, is answerable to Rome if he does not mandate or follow what Rome has approved or set forth. Look at Bishop Basil (Takach) for instance. He was following what Rome set forth. That's what being in communion with Rome means.

I'm not asking for names, but exactly how many parishes in the four diocese' of the Metropolia actually celebrate the DL exactly following the 1964 liturgicon? Does anyone know?

I'm not giving up on the Church, I'm just being realistic. Rome approved the Liturgy, it's going to take a lot of letter writing or a new major exodus of people to other Churches (as was the case in the formation of the Johnstown Diocese) to make Rome notice and make a change. We're small fish in a big pond, unfortunately.

Would I rather the 1964 Liturgicon (with corrections) to what is being promulgated now? Yes! But I'd be a minority in my parish, let me tell you. Our average Sunday Liturgy now runs 1 hour 10 minutes to 1 hour 20 minutes and believe me, there are more than a few people who grumble it's too long sometimes and walk out after communion. What will the new revisions do to a parish that now is used to a 35-40 minute recited liturgy (low mass)?

Would I rather that our bishops had done this in concert with the other Churches in the English speaking world or at least in the USA that use the same recension as us? Absolutely! I think it was extremely arrogant and impudent to do this alone, only the Ruthenian sui juris Church of Pittsburgh, as if the UGCC and Melkite GCC did not exist here. That is my opinion.

What I'm trying to say is: let's give things a chance, maybe modifications can be made once the dust has settled. Is that unreasonable?

my $.02. John K

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Hi John,

Quote
What I'm trying to say is: let's give things a chance, maybe modifications can be made once the dust has settled. Is that unreasonable?

I reread Fr. Loya's post and then saw your comment again above. I think "giving things a chance" is unreasonable. I think, as Fr. Loya has so aptly stated, we need to be radical. And that, I believe, will be in accord with the God who is logos.

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"I'm not asking for names, but exactly how many parishes in the four diocese' of the Metropolia actually celebrate the DL exactly following the 1964 liturgicon? Does anyone know?"

Not enough!

"I think that it's been mentioned somewhere that the bishop is the guardian of the liturgy and chief liturgist for his diocese. If that is the case, priests not following what the bishop has set forth are disobedient to him, who is their master and father in Christ. The bishop, OTOH, is answerable to Rome if he does not mandate or follow what Rome has approved or set forth."

If the Bishops are the "guardians of the liturgy" then they are not doing their jobs and must be deposed for their own salvation and for the good of the Body of Christ.

If the Bishops promulgate a Liturgy or anything else that defies/waters down/etc. Jesus Christ and the Priests refuse to be accomplices, then the Bishops are being disobedient to THE MASTER while the Priests are being obedient to THE MASTER.

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Originally Posted by InCogNeat3's
"I'm not asking for names, but exactly how many parishes in the four diocese' of the Metropolia actually celebrate the DL exactly following the 1964 liturgicon? Does anyone know?"

Not enough!

"I think that it's been mentioned somewhere that the bishop is the guardian of the liturgy and chief liturgist for his diocese. If that is the case, priests not following what the bishop has set forth are disobedient to him, who is their master and father in Christ. The bishop, OTOH, is answerable to Rome if he does not mandate or follow what Rome has approved or set forth."

If the Bishops are the "guardians of the liturgy" then they are not doing their jobs and must be deposed for their own salvation and for the good of the Body of Christ.

If the Bishops promulgate a Liturgy or anything else that defies/waters down/etc. Jesus Christ and the Priests refuse to be accomplices, then the Bishops are being disobedient to THE MASTER while the Priests are being obedient to THE MASTER.

OK--again, I hear everything that you're saying. I'm not 100% thrilled either. But, it still remains that 1) The new liturgy is coming, and 2) Rome approved it. If the majority of parishes are not celebrating using the complete 1964 books, and let's face it, the majority are probably celebrating using much less, then this will be a step up for many.

Honestly, before the new liturgy is rolled out, if you want to call the bishops on the carpet about doing their job, every parish not having an iconostas should be required to put one in. And not two icons on easles either! biggrin

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