www.byzcath.org Forums Mysteries: The Life of Worship Vespers, Matins & the Divine Liturgy The Revised Divine Liturgy The shiny side of the coin.

Slava Isusu Christu! Glory forever!

My cantor has reviewed the revised Divine Liturgy (rDL) and provided me with some very positive feedback.

1. The third antiphons are included.

2. The Beautitudes are included.

3. We are reinstituting the use of the zenon (hope I got this right- adding very warm water to the Most Precious Body and Blood of Jesus Christ).

Yes, there are opportunities with the rDL but I am observing a few positives also.

On a side note, as an altar server, I would like to see the availability of the Presbyter version with altar server comments added, to create a more uniform Divine Liturgy within the Archeparchy.

Has anyone given this any thought? An altar server's guide to the rDL?

Thank you.

In Christ,

Michael

There are a few guides for altar servers in print. The Antiochian Archdiocese did one about forty years ago, which is not bad, except that it calls for more servers than many parishes can muster.

Fr. Serge

There also is alot of negative feedback in Pittsburgh. Many are upset, some churches are even contemplating leaving. It seems that this revised liturgy will result in casualties.

U-C

Realistically? Or grumbles among a few?

No, I do mean whole parishes.

I am very sorry to hear that. I will pray for all.

I can't help wondering if these specific churches are among those in the Archeparchy that remain highly Latinized?

I am glad to hear we are saying "Theotokos". Regarding inclusive language I have consulted an independent expert who said the new translation is correct and the original Greek can be translated "for us men" or "for us". Both are correct.

If they are Latinized parishes, where would they go? They'd find a similar climate in ACROD and certainly the OCA or ROCOR would not be good places. If on the other hand they are MORE eastern and fear losing their "eastern-ness," ACROD or the OCA would be the best fit. Either way, hopefully they'll be let go with grace and none of the ugliness and court battles of the Thirties and Forties. Times SHOULD have changed.

Dear Ray,

We've got other experts here who say it isn't correct. So there!

Zeon is super hot water. Usually in an Orthodox parish this is done during the liturgy with a device that rapidly boils the water. If not, it is held in a thermos. No matter how one may justify the changes, we can simply start at the very beginning of the Liturgy and see that a proper Proskomedia doesn't exist. If something isn't right from the very beginning, it isn't right anywhere else.
Excuses, excuses. While it is nice the term Theotokos is being used, it doesn't make up for the other troubles found in the new liturgy. Once again, if there is to be any similarities with the Orthodox brethren, then why not simply adapt the Orthodox Liturgicon? Why re-write and not fix major key points that are lacking (proskomedia just for a start).
I can give a positive note, essence is better than substance.

Is there going to be a modern day K.O.V.O/Borba of this revised liturgy?

God help us all!

Ungcsertezs

"If they are Latinized parishes, where would they go?"

My point is that many parishes are already very Eastern, and have been using some of these changes for at least 10 years. I would guess these changes will not be met with much resistance. Those still Latinized have been resistant to any type of change over the last 30 years- ie Iconostasis, etc. Where would they go? Probably to the nearest Latin church.

As for the Zion (I thought it was 'teplota' sp? -maybe that means warmer as opposed to boiling) this is not new to the Ruthenian church either. We have many parishes that have adopted this practice, some easily 15 years already.

Changing "Mother of God" to "Theotokos" is more in line with our Orthodox brothers and sisters. It sounds beautiful when sung by their choirs.

I don't personally believe the court cases of the 30's are possible today. The parish properties are all owned by the bishop. We may support them, etc. but the days of trustee ownership are long gone, and you can bet the bishops have legally corrected deeds, structuring, etc to prevent any chance of recurrence.

Savethelitugry,

What do you find wrong with the Proskomedia?

Fr. Deacon Lance

I believe Zeon and Teplota are the same thing, just the Greek and Slavonic terms for the warmed water added to the chalice before communion. I am pretty sure Zeon can also refer to the vessel for holding the warmed water.