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The reason they understand what is happening in a Latin Mass is because they are taught in English.

The reason they do not understand what is happening in a Novus Ordo Mass is because they are not being taught.

The solution appears to me to start teaching them in English (or their native language).

Good point! Thank you for pointing it out. My statement does appear amusing when the obvious absurdity is pointed out. I should have thought more about my own choice of words.

Attendants at the Traditional Latin Mass throughout the ages and up to today do not "understand what is happening" because they are taught in English (or their own vernacular, whatever that may be), or at the very least not solely because of that. I would agree that that we can and should learn through our own languages about the Mass, but *the Mass is a teaching tool within itself.* The words, actions, movements, and rituals prescribed in the TLM are teaching tools. Any fool who'd never heard of Catholics before could walk into a TLM (or reverent NO) and easily be able to glean that the Eucharist is the central core of the Mass, immensely important to the faithful, and the surrounding ceremonies and rituals reinforce that a sacred offering is being conducted. I would venture to say that they would even be able to tell that we worship the Sacred Species.

Yes, the faithful should be taught in English, but when translations are provided for the Latin in the Mass, and when the Mass itself is a teaching tool when executed according to the Church's norms and wishes, the burden becomes lighter on the teaching authorities.

I'm a little confused by your assertion that being taught in our native tongues is a large element of understanding what the Mass is about. No one is advocating catechisms or homilies in Latin, as far as I know! Where's the disagreement?

Logos - Alexis

My point is that between the typical Latin Mass community and the typical Novus Ordo community (where abuses are occurring), the major difference is catechesis and not the language spoken in the Mass. My point is that I believe if the same level of catechesis were happening for the vernacular Mass that the people would "know" what is going on to the same degree.

I would agree with that, but the translations would have to be correct (and they haven't even come close in English until now), and even for a Novus Ordo to be celebrted wholly in the vernacular is foreign to Roman Catholic (ortho)praxis, isn't it?

Logos - Alexis

I'll be in the silent mode on this until 2/23...

james

Keep in mind I am a Byzantine on the outside looking in, although I do play for a NO RC church. If I had never seen a typical NO mass before, I might conclude the most important action was the peace greeting, not "Any fool who'd never heard of Catholics before could walk into a TLM (or reverent NO) and easily be able to glean that the Eucharist is the central core of the Mass, immensely important to the faithful," as Garrett said. Also, if I had never seen the inside of a NO church and knew nothing about their worship, I might conclude that they worship a god of chairs, since that is often the most prominent feature.

James said: "I'll be in the silent mode on this until 2/23..."

I thought the Feast of the Chair of St. Peter was on the 22nd. Anyway, we shall see. I've no doubt it will be soon, but given the track record, I've decided to ignore specific date references. +Castrillon again confirmed a couple days ago that "the Holy Father will extend the permission" for the TLM, and Cardinal +Ricard stated that the Holy Father "has all the necessary elements of the dossier in his hands."

Logos - Alexis

As I have read over at the new liturgical movement blogspot ...

"The Divine Liturgy never grows old, nor becomes out dated" - Patriarch Bartholomew

I hope Pope Benedict will find the strength to carry through with what many pray and long for...

james, in silent running mode

I teach Latin and Greek at a university level so I am talking from the position o0f having taught the language at a catholic University for the last 40 years. We have low enrollments in Latin and most of the students don't want to memorize grammar. To make the "sacred language" argument is a real reach.

Alexis notes, "It is ironic, and sad, that it seems that although the average Catholic didn't understand Latin 50 years ago, there was a much greater awareness of what the Mass is, and is about, than now when we have the Mass in our own vulgar tongues. And it's not like hierarch after hierarch and document after document coming from the Holy See hasn't encouraged more Latin in Novus Ordo Masses. We would all do well to (re-)read Bl. Pope John XXIII's Veterum Sapientia ..."

Alexis, you cannot turn the clock back. The church is always in a process of change as far as disciplinary matters go. Again, the idea is that one should deliver the message in a language that the majority of the people in the pews can understand. Latin and Greek do not (despite the fact I like a good Divine Liturgy in Greek) do the trick for the younger generation. In my judgment, the issue is bad translations from Greek/Latin into English or what ever modern language you care to use. Rome has not succeeded in doing this well. They should look at the Book of Common Prayer (1929 edition) to see how English can serve as a "sacred language." Although I am Greek Orthodox (I am of Italian extraction), I hate seeing some parishes in the EOC being used as a vehicle for delivering Greek/Russian/Serbian/Arabic (etc.) culture first and Jesus' message second. This is my opinion.

I am an advocate of using English if at all possible; it will keep American parishes in the east and in the west from becoming ethnic ghettos. Flame away!

I thought I would weigh in here in defense of Latin... The reason that Latin is thought to be a good idea is precisely because it is a dead language; hence, the meanings of words are not being changed by everyday use. For example, in English people often say I became nauseous when I thought about it. Well, nauseous is like poisonous, and nauseated is like poisoned. What they intend to say is they became nauseated, but so many people use it this way that only old fogies like me are disturbed (or amused) anymore.

This is a very good idea in terms of writing universal Church documents (altho I can see that some would be disturbed by the choice being Latin).

In addition, if the same language is used in many places, then travellers are not left high and dry, so to speak. I could go to a TLM anywhere and take my missal and be able to participate and understand. The way things are in the NO, I go to one church and am told to stand for the Consecration as well as after the Agnus Dei (Lamb of God) and throughout Communion, at another, to kneel only during the Consecration, and if I go only to another diocese, I would be kneeling for the Agnus Dei and after receiving Communion. Not to mention what happens to people who travel to another country! (They can't even understand the announcements explaining everything!)

I do not see the problem in using Latin. When I was able to attend a Divine Liturgy which was partly in English and partly in Old Church Slavonic, I was picking up the OCS in just a few weeks--not the meaning of each word, but how to read and pronounce the words. I knew what they meant because the English and the OCS were side-by-side and they alternated which prayers were said in each language. And I had no background in any Slavic language except for a couple of weeks of Russian (dropped to bring my course load down to 26 credits--obviously feeling a little optimistic when I registered!).

At the TLM now, it is entirely in Latin, but the readings are repeated in Enlish at the beginning of the sermon, and that is the main variable part of the Mass. I find the TLM to be very worshipful and reverent, and the architecture really lends itself so much more to prayers rising up to God than the current bare-bones style of most NO churches (but despite that, I am really in love with the Divine Liturgy which is so sublime!)

Just wanted to quickly add that the Chuch Slavonic I mentioned above was transliterated, not Cyrillic writing.