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The IC,NI,KA portions of the Lamb are served at Communion in my experience, but I think Fr. David is refering to the fact that not all the particles for Communion are coming from the Lamb.

The Lamb is used for holy Communion:

The IC portion is broken and placed into the chalice before the communion of the clergy.

Then the XC portion is used for the communion of the clergy.

The NI and KA portions are for communion of the faithful.

The the other particles, those cut for the Mother of God, the saints, the living and the dead, are consumed placed into the chalice after communion, and are consumed by the deacon or priest at the ablution of the chalice after Liturgy.

This is also the practice at my parish.

Correction of typos: My last paragraph should have read: The other particles, those cut for the Mother of God, the saints, the living and the dead, are placed into the chalice after communion, and are consumed by the deacon or priest at the ablution of the chalice after Liturgy.

At the end of Divine Liturgy the antidoron, the "left-over" --not consecrated -- particles cut at the proskomedia, are distributed to the faithful.

It is logical to have the giving of antidoron as there will be unconsecrated bread left over from Proskomedia. But the bread is still bless as it was used in a liturgical rite.

I prefer coming up to the priest at the conclusion of the Liturgy to receive the antidoron, than the priest going out to the front of the church to say good-bye to the people ( a very protestant thing to do).

Although the new Proskomedia indicates the traditional use of five prosphora, one for the Lamb, and the others for the commemorations, it does not say anything about antidoron. The Red Book had the rubrics for the antidoron - noting also that the psalm "I will bless the Lord at all times..." accompanies the giving of the antidoron.

I think it is nice that I can submit names every week to be prayed for at Proskomede. I understand that this is a very powerful intercessory prayer time, and that these names are then taken by angels behind the altar, straight to the Lord!

Alice

In Orthodox churches I have seen variance in practice. In some places antidoron will be distributed after communion (sometimes with zapivka depending on the church) as well as after the final prayers as the faithful come up to venerate the hand cross. A basket with the remaining antidoron can also be left out if there is any or it may distributed during the trapeza and/or coffee hour. It can vary.

In my parish the antidoron (which most people refer to as bozhe bread) is distributed after communion while Sunday school is in and after the liturgy when it is not.

The prosphora itself is usually baked by our Pani. My wife will bake it and bring it when we want to offer special intentions though, and she has a set of prayers she was given to recite during the preparation of the bread.

Lazareno, is yours a Ruthenian parish? I've never known a Ruthenian parish to do this though it's what's done by the rest of Orthodoxy. If it is, maybe I'll move there!

Alice,

It is such a beautiful and comforting tradition. Hopefully, someday we Ruthenians can do this too!

"The other particles, those cut for the Mother of God, the saints, the living and the dead, are placed into the chalice after communion, and are consumed by the deacon or priest at the ablution of the chalice after Liturgy."

This is not prescribed by the Ruthenian Ordo. All the particles are placed in the chalice before Communion. This is actually the older practice as the commemoration particles are one of the last additions to the Proskomedia. However, some have picked up the Russian practice quoted above, placing the commemoration particles in after Communion with the prayer: "By your precious Blood, O Lord, wash away the sins of all those here commemorated through the prayers of your saints."

Fr. Deacon Lance

Many here may not be aware of the traditional practice regarding those particles next to the "Lamb." Communion comes from the Lamb (both for the clergy and the people). The particles in commemoration for the Theotokos, the saints, and various intentions are not added to the Chalice until after Communion.

For example, from the Divine Liturgy text (GOA) [goarch.org]:


Years ago, Father Maximos of Holy Resurrection Monastery wrote about this:


Of course, having a bunch of pre-cut pieces on the diskos which are then served for Communion instead of restricting Communion to the Lamb makes this distinction pointless and is probably why our Liturgy texts omit this prayer after Communion even though Russian, Antiochian and Greek practice follow it.

I personally find the symbolism quite rich and wonder why we prefer the convenience of pre-cut pieces to this?

Like the Greeks and the Antiochians?

This may not be in the Ruthenian Ordo but doesn't it seem odd that the rest of Byzantine Orthodoxy follows this but we kept an "older practice"?

Is it not possible that the Ordo reflects some of the spirit of the Synod of Zamosc which attempted to "purify" our Liturgy (such as getting rid of the sponge, etc.)?

Someone I know once commented on this and gave this evidence for the antiquity of this practice:

<<Lazareno, is yours a Ruthenian parish? I've never known a Ruthenian parish to do this though it's what's done by the rest of Orthodoxy.>>

I am speaking of a Ruthenian parish.

"This may not be in the Ruthenian Ordo but doesn't it seem odd that the rest of Byzantine Orthodoxy follows this but we kept an "older practice"?"

Not at all. The Ruthenian Recension doesn't do many things that other Byzantines, Orthodox and Catholic, do and it has nothing to do with Latinization but with the fact that the Ruthenian Recension preserves older usages than the Nikonian and its Greek contemporaries. The Ruthenian Recension also does not have the troparia of the Third Hour at the Epiclesis or the Resurrection Hymn after Communion.

"Is it not possible that the Ordo reflects some of the spirit of the Synod of Zamosc which attempted to "purify" our Liturgy (such as getting rid of the sponge, etc.)?"

Not it is not. Zamosc did 4 things and 4 things only in regard to the Liturgy. It required the Filioque and the inclusion of commemorating the Pope in the Litanies and Post-Anaphora. It forbade the use of the sponge and the use of zeon.

"Someone I know once commented on this and gave this evidence for the antiquity of this practice:
Quote:
In terms of Slavonic texts, the Mohylian and Kyivan texts of the Sluzhebnik in the early 1600s are explicit about including these prayers."

The 1600's are hardly antiquity when it somes to the Liturgy. Older texts do not have the commemorations. The oldest manuscripts give a Proskomedia which is, not suprsingly, much like the Syrian/Maronite Proskomedia, which is much shorter and simpler than the current Byzantine one. Originally only the Prayer of the Proskomedia was said. Later the Prophet Isaiah verses: Like a sheep led to the slaughter..., the Gospel of St. John verse: One of the soldiers pierced his side..., and the Psalm verses: The Lord is king... and Your virtue has covered the heavens... were added before it. The commemorations were added last. The Syrians and Maronites have the verses from Prophet Isaiah, St. John, and the Psalm verse: Your virtue has covered the heavens...

So while the Ruthenian Recension ended up with the full Proskomedia it retained the older rubric of placing all the particles in before Communion before there were commemoration particles. I have nothing against the practice and the Seminary and some priets do this, which means when I serve with them I do it; saying the prayer "By your Precious Blood...". It is just not original to the Ruthenian Recension and its not being in our books is not a Latinization or omission.

Fr. Deacon Lance

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Although I cannot speak for all Greek priests, every Greek priest that I have served with (and that is quite a few) follows the Ruthenian practice and puts all of the pieces on the Dyskos into the Chalice before communing the people. You are correct in asserting that the usual Antiochian practice is to follow the Russian Typikon. Of course, much in the Antiochian Typikon follows the Russian practices -- this is because of the Russian support throughout the centuries for the Arab Christians.

Father Deacon Lance,

I was referring to the "spirit of Zamosc" not the actual Synod. I didn't mean that Zamosc itself had changed this.

The Communion of the Faithful is to come from the NI and KA portions of the Lamb. While certainly there was development of the proskomedia rite, I would like to see documentation of your claim the current Ruthenian practice of putting the commemoration particles in before Communion preserves an older practice.

I think we have to be careful in making such statements. Father Kucharek's Byzantine-Slav Liturgy of St John Chrysostom mentions that there were practices being done in the Liturgy and yet our texts for these date from later times.

The universality of the current practice (from the Greek, Antiochian, and Russian texts) should not be ignored. Interesting that the Seminary does this. Will they stop doing this once the Revised Liturgy goes into effect?