www.byzcath.org Forums Faith & Christian Life Faith & Theology What does it mean to be Orthodox in Union with Rome?

To be both Orthodox (faithful and true to the fulness of the true faith) and in communion with the Church of Rome, is God's will for us. And that is the only reason, and it is enough.

the unworthy,
Elias

Dear Borislav,

No one said it wasn't a falsification. That you dwell on it, rather than looking for what we Orthodox have done is the problem. It reminds me of those that complain about the Fourth Crusade, (which of course was barbaric, as stated by the Pope when he found out what happened a year later), yet completely overlook the Third Crusade and the 'treachery' of the Byzantines, nor the massacres that occurred against the Latins before the Fourth Crusade.

Can you just imagine the Catholics delving into these things and bringing them up constantly. Certainly it would show a lack of good will, nor a real desire for a united 'Christian' Church. One that could combat everything that is going on in the world today.


I say:

He can be a bishop, but bishops can be faulty. If I recall correctly, weren't there Arian bishops?


I say:

I believe that talks are being held in order to resolve the conflicting issues. Of course the we can't have communion until those issues are resolved.


I can only form my opinion of you by what you say and how it conflicts with my own opinion of what constitute's an Orthodox Christian. I am not judging!

I say:

Only saints have shown themselves to be truly 'orthodox'...and that by the way is my opinion of the title. By the same account, you have just stated that bishops have even excommunicated one another, and yet before you stated that one should accept the Bulgarian bishop and his statement that the Pope is a heretic. So which bishops should be listened to?

Zenovia

As it pertains to the Bishop in question I honestly can not say that I would support His statements about the Pope. At the same time I do not condemn Him either. He has a valid point and it needs to be discussed.

I know that what I am about to say may offend some people, but to me this young ORTHODOX Bishop has more authority than the Pope.

Well, after reading all of these posts and the banter, I now have a headache. I want to say that I am sorry and ask forgiveness from anyone that I may have harmed if I have contributed to the tensions expressed here in the thread.

To refer back to one of Gordo's posts: I am an Orthodox who thinks that the separation between Orthodoxy and Catholicism is not a gulf, but not a trickle either. I will just say also that it did come to a point for me that I either had to accept all that Rome teaches regarding herself (the post-schism councils) or I had to admit that I could not be in communion with Rome. So, it does seem essential to accept the post-schism councils as binding in their dogmatic pronouncements if one is to be in union with Rome. All of the councils that Rome holds as ecumenical Rome intended for the entire Church, not just the Latin Church. I would fully expect that any eastern Catholic would accept the papal claims as they stand (though subject to further development ). I can also see how one can interpret history in such a way as to justify those claims. I don't think we can have certitude in these matters (something I've said before). God bless everyone as we begin the fast of Great Lent.

Joe

God grant us humility. This is powereful for each and every one of us. That we may all be one.


in peace,

I don't think any one here harmed any one else

We are simply engaging in a constructive debate. All families often have arguments. This is normal!




AMEN

I was just commenting that I agree with Todd, namely that the main underlying issue is a difference in ecclesiology. Personally I lean towards the idea that the church is present in its fullness wherever the sacraments are present.

My in person impression of Eastern Catholicism is that they see themselves certainly as Eastern Christians, but not as "Orthodox". That in large part has nothing to do with matters of faith however. That's an inner struggle of "us" and "them". It however occurs on both sides as well in other ways where you can have an "us" born in to the church and a "them" who converted to it. So nationalism can be an issue on multiple levels.

What I felt in the UGCC parishes I visited were not vast differences, but some subtle ones.

Let's show some compassion during the Great Fast please!

This is a unique forum. It is a place where Catholics and Orthodox show respect for each other. I've been around here for several years and that has been one of THE best things about Byzcath. Contrary to other places in the world wide web we have decent and respectful conversations. We have polite conversation. We find that we are great friends and we all are on a journey, a journey that may lead us closer to Christ.

Finally Orthodox and Greek/Byzantine Catholics are able to come to a common place and have charitable and cordial discussion.
Please let's keep that in mind as we post during thie Lenten season or any season!

Orthodox Pyrohy,
That is a very commendable post.
But is it not possible to respect someone yet disagree and sometimes very stongly with their points of view.
Where does true charity lie? In not making statements which upset and challenge others or to ignore them?
Stephanos I

Great post Joe, I am glad somebody sees it my way.

If I was overly rude in stating my point I do apologize. I just feel rather strongly that I have a valid point.

People are adults here, and if they have strong feelings or opinions, they should be able to express them. That's what discussion is, it's not just everybody agreeing about something or tip-toeing around because they don't want to hurt people's feelings.

When somebody crosses the line and makes an issue personal, I would think it would be better for them to be privately warned first before making a general board wide statement. The public corrections and admonishments I think at times can be a little overbearing, no matter who they are issued by.

My frustration with this thread isn't so much the heated debate, but that the opinions of those who try to be orthodox in communion with Rome weren't really heard. It quickly became a thread dominated by argument from the Orthodox members about how OiCwR* is impossible. Maybe it is, and maybe it isn't, but before we answer that question, we need to know what it is that OiCwRers think it is. I trust that sentence is obscure



*(Orthodox in Comunion with Rome)

I understand what you're saying, but by the same token the thread starter could have asked that discussion be restricted to Byzantine Catholics only or for the OiCwoORers to withold their opinion.

My statement was more general though. I think sometimes people can be quick to attempt to "restore order", whereas I personally feel as if people should just be accountable for their own actions and let it be at that.

Dear Friends,

Yes, the problem is that for the first millennium, all were "Orthodox in communion with Rome."

How can this then be an impossibility today?

Alex

To quote

It is important that the doctrine of primacy within synodality be restored in the Roman Church, so that it once again conforms to the common faith of the first millennium.

That is why.