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Patrriarch Lubomyr stats he has heard of some changes but he has not seen the new book. I do hope someone can get it into his hands soon.

Michael

From a practical standpoint, and the fact that I am just curious, what exactly do you think he could do about it?

Make sure that we do not adopt it ?

I'm told that our Liturgy is by no means perfect [ ] but we do not have this nonsense of inclusive language yet

True, he could influence your own church to not adopt it. I understand that as a major archbishop who is also a cardinal, he has no real jurisdiction outside of his own geographic area. However, I don't think he would have much influence on the Ruthenian bishops in the United States.

Just musing here...

Outside of central Europe in most countries the 'Ruthenians' (from Hungary, Slovakia, Transkarpathia, etc.) are shepherded by the Ukrainian church. The one major exception being the Pittsburgh Metropolia.

There is also a very small Slovak church in Canada, the Slovaks are a major constituent population of the Ruthenian Metropolia of Pittsburgh across the border on the USA side.

I think that there is (or has been) a major paranoia about being swallowed up by the Ukrainian church. And it seems to me that the Pope actually has the authority to make that happen. The bishop of Rome has the right to erect and dissolve eparchies as needed, and that may possibly be seen as a threatening fate for Pittsburgh.

Quite honestly I cannot understand how some of these eparchies can sustain themselves with steadily dropping membership totals. Perhaps it is time to actually look at consolidation of the churches. A good beginning would be adoption of common translation and rubrics.

But then, steering the Ruthenian Metropolia into a distinct set of practices could make it a hard thing for the Ukrainian church to absorb. This could be a way of distancing the two churches from each other.

In any case, I suppose Patriarch Lubomyr's input is not looked for, and would not be welcome by the hierarchs of the BCC. I would expect them to be on friendly personal terms, but unsolicited advice??

Michael

And on top of that, being the gracious gentleman that he appears to be, I don't think he would offer advice to the BCC.

It appears that across the great pond here that the nonsense has found a place.


I've always found it interesting that in the pew book put out by the Eparchy of Parma Ukrainian Greek Catholic Church, The Sacrifice of Praise, 1996, that in the Hymn to the Only Begotten Son of God it has the following:

'Without change you became human.'



Equally interesting and appropriate to what is happening here is this part of the Creed of Nicea-Constantinople:


'For us and for our salvation, he came down from heaven and was incarnate by the Holy Spirit and the virgin Mary and became man.'

Anthropos, in my very poor Greek knowledge, seems to be lacking.

* Note - 'he' and 'man' are lower case because the book had it lower case.

The above is not from memory, I have the Sacrifice of Praise in front of me and this copy was given to me by Bishop Robert Moskal himself.

I was at St. Andrew's Ukrainian Greek Catholic Church in Parma, OH for a commeration of a friend's mother, and when they recited, yes recited, all the above as well with an altar girl to go with it.

I'd love for Patriarch Lubomyr to join us in restroing Tradition and denouncing the upcoming debacle of a liturgy, however he has issues to take care of in his own house. The good news is that a place like St. Elias in Toronto also exists in his house.

What ground would Patriarch Lubomyr have to stand on when there exists the same nonsense in his church. I've met Patriarch Lubomyr and like him, don't get me wrong, but he's got to do some housecleaning of his own.

Monomakh

Monomakh - I think we are all too well aware of that

You mean the majority of Ruthenians in the US come from Slovakia?

Ungcsertezs

I didn't know it!

Some say they came from Hungary, some from Trans-Carpathia, some from Russia, and some say they are from Ukraine. All I know is that when I go to a map, I don't find Ruthenia anywhere.

No, you and I know very well that is not the case.

I stated that it is A major constituent of the church population. Not THE major constituent. I was reluctant to mention this little Canadian Eparchy of Ruthenian Slovaks at all, except that I was sure someone else would bring it up, so I needed to acknowledge them. If they had not organized themselves they would have fallen under the spiritual care of the Ukrainian church, which is very well established in Canada, or dissolved into the Latin church (which they seem to be doing anyway).

I am not aware of any other Byzantine Slavonic churches outside of East-Central Europe. In the diaspora there are the Ukrainians, and these two 'other' Ruthenian Recension churches. One in Canada and one in the USA, these are dwarfed by the widely distributed UGCC.

I have maintained for a while that the division of the Ruthenians in Europe into national churches does them no good, it is an accident of history. The borders artificially separate the hierarchies of the Slovak Byzantines, the Hungarian Byzantines, the Croatian Byzantines, the Czech Byzantines and the Rusyn Byzantines (in Ukraine). Most of these hierarchies were erected by Rome, not inherited from the Orthodox Ecumenical Patriarchate. The combined membership of these separated groups would make a very significant synod, worthy of a Major-Archbishop and a great deal of self determination.

I would suggest that all the Sub-Carpathian Ruthenians be gathered under one Major-Archbishop, including the Pittsburgh Metropolia and the Slovak Eparchy in Canada. I propose that the Major-Archepiscopal See should be in Europe.

I would further suggest that the new Major-Archepiscopal See would benefit by being attached (at least temporarily) to some future Kievan Patriarchate, rather directly under the bishop of Rome.

Naturally, none of this will be possible without the agreement of the Supreme Pontiff.

Michael

Actually, the Slovak parishes in Canada were under the jurisdiction of the local Ukrainian Catholic Bishop until the establishment of the Slovak Eparchy 20 or 25 years ago. For about 20 years Bishop Michael was simply the Apostolic Visitor.

But the more interesting question in that regard is the future, not the past. The Slovak congregations are melting, and the trouble over the big Slovak Cathedral in Unionville is not helping matters any. Sooner or later, that Cathedral will almost certainly go to the Ukrainians, who could do with a good-sized church in that area (Toronto is expanding to the north); at the moment, it's simply a large white elephant costing the heirs of Stephen Roman more than they can afford.

The parish in Lethbridge, Alberta, will have no trouble reintegrating into the Eparchy of Edmonton. That is the only actual parish outside the Eparchy of Toronto. In Toronto, some sort of face-saving arrangement and be elaborated, no doubt, for whatever remains in the other Slovak parishes (Toronto, Windsor, Montreal, Welland, Hamilton).

I'm no prophet, and I could easily be wrong in this matter. But the community is simply not large enough either to warrant or to maintain a diocese.

Fr. Serge

Actually, the majority of those six Canadian Byzantine Catholic
parishes are from Ruthenian (Rusyn) villages.

Ungcsertezs