www.byzcath.org Forums News & Events Church News "Church, State and the Proselytism Controversy in Russia"

Catholic Exchange's featured article for today is by two writers for the Keston Institute. It's entitled "Church, State, and the Proselytism Controversy in Russia" and originally appeared in the Moscow Times:

http://www.catholicexchange.com/vm/index.asp?vm_id=2&art_id=14698&sec_id=#section26688

Dave Ignatius DTBrown@aol.com

[ 08-12-2002: Message edited by: DTBrown ]

[ 08-12-2002: Message edited by: DTBrown ]

There isn't anything new in there, as far as I can tell, except perhaps for some of Keston's own proselytizing of its own perspectives on the situation.

I thought this part interesting considering that Catholic Exchange is a fairly conservative:


An admission that some Catholics do sometimes cross the line.

Dave Ignatius DTBrown@aol.com

[ 08-12-2002: Message edited by: DTBrown ]

Hi Dave --

Thanks for your post.

I guess I didn't see it as much as an admission but as a statement coming from Keston -- which, AFAIK, isn't a Roman Catholic organization. Keston has its own agenda, but I don't think that it is a Roman Catholic agenda per se. Still, it was interesting to see that ... I wonder what the Vatican and/or the RC church administration in Russia would say about that.

Brendan

Don't know what they'd say. Yes, the admission is by Keston but that it's included in a featured article on a fairly conservative Catholic webpage is of interest, I think.

As far as I know, Keston is not a Catholic organization. I believe I've read articles put out by Keston on the situation in Russia by writers who stated they were Orthodox, however.

Dave Ignatius DTBrown@aol.com

[ 08-12-2002: Message edited by: DTBrown ]

[QUOTE]Originally posted by DTBrown:

>>>As far as I know, Keston is not a Catholic organization. I believe I've read articles put out by Keston on the situation in Russia by writers who stated they were Orthodox, however.<<<

Keston is a non-denominational organization based in Oxford; their office is just around the corner from Bishop Kallistos' church. They are dedicated to documenting violations of freedom of religion, and are equal opportunity critics.

If you want to know the response of the RC to the specific charges of proselytism then read them.

http://www.catholic.ru:981/lib/ansang.html

djs

They also performed a brilliant service in highlighting the persecution of the Russian Orthodox (especially those Russian Orth dissidents who were part of the Russian Christian Seminar in the Bresznev period among others) during the 70's and 80's as well as those persecuted by the state of any religion.

About two years ago I heard Uzzell (Sp. ?), Keston's executive director, speak to a small audience at the University of Houston. Uzzell told us all that he was Orthodox, himself, but that the mission of Keston was to expose all religious oppression, though it mostly focussed on the countries of the former Soviet Union.

I attended with a OCA priest and we were both impressed with his even-handedness in criticizing the shortfalls of both Orthodox and Catholics in their dealings at the Church-state interface.

For what it's worth, I think the Patriarch of Moscow is "circling the wagons" and has gone into a defensive posture. Much of the Russian church's actions, statements, and posturing may be just a cover for this. I am NOT blaming them for this (I am Orthodox myself) -- just stating I think this is what they are doing.

Personally, I think the only reason the Catholic church can talk about openness and ecumenism is because it is so large and well funded. If it were in the shape the Russian church is at the moment (weakened from communism and not nearly as well funded as the Catholic church) then I think the Catholics might take a similar stance.

Just my opinion.

Dear Eric,

As Brendan the Theologian once said, the Russians are "seriously outgunned."

Some Vatican olive branches and backing off wouldn't be out of place just about now.

Alex

>As Brendan the Theologian once said, the Russians are "seriously outgunned."

I agree there.

But I think their strategy is the best one they can take. The Catholic church is out to "evangelize" Russia and make Catholics out of them. They are not there to just tend to the existing Eastern Catholics. Don't get me wrong - I completely understand why the Catholic church is doing this -- what else would they do? all churches (including Orthodoxy) spread what they understand to be the truth. But the fact is that whether or not the Orthodox church resists, "the Catholics are coming"... so they might as well do what they can to hold off the evangelization (of the other lung, hee, hee).

In short, if they don't resist they may lose more people to Catholicism because the Vatican is better funded and organized than the church in Russia right now -- so they might as well resist.

Dear Eric,

But sometimes the best defence is not the best offence.

Do we know to what extent the Russians actually do appreciate the Roman CAtholic Church as a western phenomenon, something new and "hip" and therefore something that should be tried by those who are willing?

There could be other factors at work here beyond the Vatican's outreach policy and so even if the Vatican did nothing, Russians might be seeking entry into the Catholic Church.

Comments from Orthodox during the papal visit to Ukraine included reflections on the Pope's amiability, holiness etc. that Orthodox felt were absent in their own leaders.

That occurred here in Toronto during WYD 2002. I saw people indifferent to religion, including my agnostic uncle, who warmed tremendously to the Pope.

And that ain't no spoiled kolbassa!

Alex

I have a question. What language does the Catholic Church use in Russia? If they aren't using Russian in their mass, I can't see how they are trying to convert the Orthodox Faithful to Catholicism.
Lauro

While it is true that many Russian clergy and laity were persecuted under the Soviet regime, it is also true that the church compromised with the Soviet regime in order to be legimitized.

For as long as the Moscow Patriarchate was legal, and all other denominations illegal, the MP has to share a goodly part of the blame for its ineffectiveness in motivitaing the population back to church.

Unfortunately Patriarch Alexei II (the former "Agent Dorzhdov" as he appears in the KGB archives) only seems to know the methods he was taught in the Soviet era, namely fear, paranoia, coercion. Although this time he does not have the full power of the regime to back him up.

The difficulty of any other denominations except the MP in receiving official parish status should also be to the MP's favor. But the other denominations seem to be gaining ground. Perhaps instead of the allegations of being "better funded", which may have some merit in some cases, it is because there are those who can see the historic relationship of the church to the Soviet regime.

And his treatment of his own reform- and socially-minded clergy such as the noble Father Gleb Yakunin is scandalous.