0 members (),
355
guests, and
114
robots. |
Key:
Admin,
Global Mod,
Mod
|
|
Forums26
Topics35,525
Posts417,642
Members6,178
|
Most Online4,112 Mar 25th, 2025
|
|
|
Joined: Feb 2006
Posts: 1,555
Member
|
Member
Joined: Feb 2006
Posts: 1,555 |
I agree that we should not concern ourselves with how others fast. To do so, is to tempt the passion of pride. The Lenten ascetical practices of fasting, abstinence from other pleasures, and our increased prayer life and humility is best saved for discussing with our spiritual fathers.
The number of those Orthodox who fast in the Greek archdiocese of America and in modern day Greece is also very, very low. We were just discussing this tonight after Great compline at church with a soon to be Orthodox priest. Everyone does what he can, and if that means abstaining from gossip, criticism, idle talk, insults, and/or gummie bears and/or chocolate, then so be it...who are we to judge? For those who do nothing at all, again, we are not to judge. Many of us here were once among those ranks. Dear Alice, Sadly, we who in engage in Orthodox-Catholic dialogue, too often dig very shallowly to find rocks to pelt at one another. I was just noting the other day in another venue that the ascetic life in the papal Church is not generally observable as a part of parish life, nor observed quite as publicly as it is in Orthodoxy, but that if you do more than scratch the surface in the lives of people in each parish you will find a surprising number of people who do lead penetential and ascetic lives through religious third orders, institutes and associations of the faithful. So it would be a sad thing to use this survey of Russian Orthodox faithful to create yet another rock to lob back at the opposition. I appreciate your perspective and spiritual maturity. I don't think I have ever seen you either unduly elevate or lower yourself. Faith is real. We don't need to create our images. God did that already once. You remain in my prayers, Mary
|
|
|
|
Joined: Nov 2001
Posts: 26,405 Likes: 38
Member
|
Member
Joined: Nov 2001
Posts: 26,405 Likes: 38 |
Dear Friends,
And let's remember that the Russians have had a 70 year penitential "fast" under the Soviets . . .
That in and of itself goes well beyond what we North Americans must "endure" during our fasting . . .
Alex
|
|
|
|
Joined: Oct 2004
Posts: 2,440
Member
|
Member
Joined: Oct 2004
Posts: 2,440 |
Dear Alex,
A few years ago, a survey was taken and it was found that only 20% of the Russians believed in God. Today I believe it is something like 40%. (Of course don't take my word on this, I might be mistaken).
My point is that as time goes on, the people are rediscovering their faith...something that was bound to happen. There is a revival of sorts going on in Greece too. I was told that last year, the large churches located every few blocks in and around Athens were so packed, that they were celebrating the Akathist about five times a day.
As for the fasting, one has to realize that in that part of the world, the lenten food was the food normally eaten by the peasants. Meat was a luxury, and was only eaten if celebrating a holiday, wedding or in showing hospitality to a guest.
Also, the only food available in the markets at this time of the year, was lenten food. Some of it was seasonal, so in that sense, the Fathers knew very well what they were doing. It was never a hardship to keep the fast, as it is in this country.
God Bless,
Zenovia
|
|
|
|
Joined: Nov 2001
Posts: 26,405 Likes: 38
Member
|
Member
Joined: Nov 2001
Posts: 26,405 Likes: 38 |
Dear Zenovia,
Certainly, you are more than correct. We do not live in an Orthodox culture (I won't say "Catholic" because "fast" to Catholics nowadays implies an adjective only ;)).
One person once said that a diet is intended to make us look better physically.
A fast is intended to make our souls better . . .
But without assiduous prayer, as you said, we won't be able to fast properly and, if we do, the fast runs the risk of becoming an unspiritual diet only.
Cheers,
Alex
|
|
|
|
Joined: Aug 2004
Posts: 3,528
Grateful Member
|
Grateful Member
Joined: Aug 2004
Posts: 3,528 |
I am often tempted to not fast. Everyone else seems to be having a grand old time eating whatever they want; why not me? But Christ said, "This kind can only be driven out by prayer and fasting." Here is an example of what that means, both when it is carried out and when it is not. It is an excerpt from an essay by a woman who protested an abortion clinic and who went to court over it -- and lost. from "Daniel Heenan�s Account of Battling the Abortion Business and Washington D.C. Police" http://www.lifesite.net/ldn/2007/feb/070212a.htmlThe best answer I could give to my students� innocent inquiries about how I could have lost these cases was based on the realization that the battle for life is, at its heart, a spiritual battle. As committed Catholics, honesty is important to us. As committed abortion proponents, deceit and dishonesty is part and parcel of their business. The very term they use to describe themselves, �pro-choice�, is the most poignant illustration of this fact. Is it realistic for us to expect true justice from a system that can rationalize abortion? More alarming yet was the fact that during the trial all three defense witnesses, including the defendant, revealed themselves as being either Catholics or former Catholics. This was particularly embarrassing for me as I was being represented by a group of fervent evangelical Christians from the American Center for Law and Justice. This begs the question then, of to what extent is the proliferation of evils like abortion in our society at its root a failure of the Church to effectively carry out its mission? What would be the state of the abortion industry in this country if all the so-called Catholics were really Catholic? Could Planned Parenthood survive without the support of Catholics? So often, and rightly so, we criticize the bishops for their failure to discipline the likes of Nancy Pelosi and John Kerry. But, should we really expect them to do so when the faith is not being taught on the most basic level to the extent that a security guard who admits to being raised Catholic can testify that his job is to put his life on the line to defend Planned Parenthood? Though these witnesses all know that the Church is opposed to abortion, they evidently do not think that is of much consequence. The battle is thus not merely a legal and political one. Demons like these can, perhaps, only be expelled through much prayer and fasting, as our Lord once said. For this to happen, true Christians zealously pass down and defend the fundamental teachings of the faith. My point is this: there cannot be spiritual truth without spiritual living, because they are the same thing. When we think that the truth of religion is just a bunch of ideas, when we forget that our pattern of living is the major part of the truth of our lives, we get this kind of deadly nonsense: pro-choice Catholics, legalized abortion, and a culture increasingly defined by lust, gluttony, anger and greed. My two cents worth. Please say a prayer for me that I can and will keep the Fast. Everyone at the Byzcath Forum is in my prayers. -- John
|
|
|
|
Joined: Mar 2006
Posts: 1,505
Member
|
Member
Joined: Mar 2006
Posts: 1,505 |
Not sure how much faith to place in a Lewada poll. They run polls on things like: "Do you prefer girls with shaven heads?" and "Does your boyfriend have a piercing on his *****?"
If they polled the same database of people I am not surprised if such people do not fast.
|
|
|
|
Joined: Mar 2006
Posts: 618
Member
|
Member
Joined: Mar 2006
Posts: 618 |
I am often tempted to not fast. Everyone else seems to be having a grand old time eating whatever they want; why not me? But Christ said, "This kind can only be driven out by prayer and fasting." Here is an example of what that means, both when it is carried out and when it is not. It is an excerpt from an essay by a woman who protested an abortion clinic and who went to court over it -- and lost. from "Daniel Heenan�s Account of Battling the Abortion Business and Washington D.C. Police" http://www.lifesite.net/ldn/2007/feb/070212a.htmlThe best answer I could give to my students� innocent inquiries about how I could have lost these cases was based on the realization that the battle for life is, at its heart, a spiritual battle. As committed Catholics, honesty is important to us. As committed abortion proponents, deceit and dishonesty is part and parcel of their business. The very term they use to describe themselves, �pro-choice�, is the most poignant illustration of this fact. Is it realistic for us to expect true justice from a system that can rationalize abortion? More alarming yet was the fact that during the trial all three defense witnesses, including the defendant, revealed themselves as being either Catholics or former Catholics. This was particularly embarrassing for me as I was being represented by a group of fervent evangelical Christians from the American Center for Law and Justice. This begs the question then, of to what extent is the proliferation of evils like abortion in our society at its root a failure of the Church to effectively carry out its mission? What would be the state of the abortion industry in this country if all the so-called Catholics were really Catholic? Could Planned Parenthood survive without the support of Catholics? So often, and rightly so, we criticize the bishops for their failure to discipline the likes of Nancy Pelosi and John Kerry. But, should we really expect them to do so when the faith is not being taught on the most basic level to the extent that a security guard who admits to being raised Catholic can testify that his job is to put his life on the line to defend Planned Parenthood? Though these witnesses all know that the Church is opposed to abortion, they evidently do not think that is of much consequence. The battle is thus not merely a legal and political one. Demons like these can, perhaps, only be expelled through much prayer and fasting, as our Lord once said. For this to happen, true Christians zealously pass down and defend the fundamental teachings of the faith. My point is this: there cannot be spiritual truth without spiritual living, because they are the same thing. When we think that the truth of religion is just a bunch of ideas, when we forget that our pattern of living is the major part of the truth of our lives, we get this kind of deadly nonsense: pro-choice Catholics, legalized abortion, and a culture increasingly defined by lust, gluttony, anger and greed. My two cents worth. Please say a prayer for me that I can and will keep the Fast. Everyone at the Byzcath Forum is in my prayers. -- John Hospodi Pomiluj! Hospodi Pomiluj! Hospodi Pomiluj! A Blessed Fast and Happy Fasting!
|
|
|
|
|