www.byzcath.org Forums Faith & Christian Life The Christian East & West Orthodox in Communion with Rome -- trying again

oh the K-O-R-A-N
yes that's the book my friend
I stand alone on the word of Allah
the K-O-R-A-N
yes, remember the Koran, memorize it.
Much Love,
Jonn
see, they even take a page from Christian Fundamentalists. not an original thought comes from them, what a shame

I think the Christian fundies stole that thought from the Muslims, after all the Muslims are older than our fundies.

I'm going to hijack the thread back to Mother Bear's article about the Greek scholar? who suggested that stubborness is what's stopping Orthodox and RC reunnion.

If the Eastern Orthodox reunite with the Oriental Orthodox like the Coptics, who I understand have a theology that is closer to RC in some ways (ideas about sacrifice) and supposing the RC is able to unite with the Coptics then wouldn't that knock down some of the Eastern Orthodox resistance and even invalidate it in a sense? I'm speculating and admit that I don't know all the facts so please enlighten me. I'm open.

Peace,
Indigo

Dear Friends,

Actually, the Muslims took the idea of memorizing the Koran from the Christian Monks of the Thebaid with whom Mohammed came into contact with.

As you know, the "novitiate" of the Coptic monks of the desert included the memorization of the entire Book of Psalms and the Gospels (or one Gospel).

Eastern monastic theology affirmed that when one memorized the text, the heart was enabled to confirm it during recitation etc.

I'd ask Todd to comment, but I see he has his hands full today!

Alex

Because of the acceptance of Chalcedon, I would say that the prospect of unity is greater between the East and West than it is with either and the Oriental Orthodox. Not everyone agrees with that.

Unity between all churches will not be a matter of giving up "resistance", but about looking within oneself and preparing to make the compromises that will be necessary to get there. Not an easy task.

The first and most difficult is for each to say they are lacking something by not having this unity, and by finding unity it will bring equal completeness to all. Very few people in any communion I think are ready to admit to this.

Dear AMM,

Not at all, Friend!

The only thing missing from a full union between Eastern Orthodox and Oriental Orthodox is the number of Councils to accept and how to accept them by the Orientals.

This is very much like the discussion about how much Councils are truly "Ecumenical" and that would have to be accepted by a reunified Church, East and West? Are the 14 later Latin Councils local only? Can they be relegated to a local status and be of concern to the Latin Church alone? (I think they can!).

Once the Oriental Orthodox can be accommodated somehow, only a liturgical act of reunion would be necessary to reestablish the unity.

In all other ways, the two families of Orthodox Churches are identical.

The Georgian Orthodox Church is the only Oriental Church to ever have come into union with Eastern Orthodoxy - its Saints such as St David of Garesja, a Miaphysite who was attacked by Greek theologians in his day, and all the Miaphysite Saints of Georgia are now on the worldwide Orthodox calendar of Saints . . .

Alex

It's certainly possible we are closer to achieving reconciliation with the OO. I feel they are quite close, if not nearly identical with us.

I'm not a theologian by any stretch of the imagination, so the finer points of many of the issues such as the exact nature of Christology or the nature of God (essence/energy) are completely lost on me. I certainly like both Armenian and Georgian food though.

"I certainly like both Armenian and Georgian food though."

Perhaps food can be the catalyst for union? Imagine the food festivals then?!?

Alice, who also thinks Armenian food is yummy

The Oriental Orthodox are closer to the Eastern Orthodox as far as [i]theosis is concerned. Here is a response to a question that was posted on the website of the Coptic Church of the Southern United States:[/i]


QUESTION: How does Coptic theology approach and explain the subject of 'theosis'? Chalcedonians use the Palamite terms 'essence' and 'energy': man participates in God's energies but not in His essence.

ANSWER: Theosis or Deification means "union with God" taken from the Greek Theos - God, and the word Enosis - union. Our Lord Jesus Christ asked God the Father "They also may be one in us" (Jn 17:21). He also gave us the command of Theosis "Therefore you shall be perfect, just as your Father in Heaven is perfect" (Mt 5:48), our goal in life is to accomplish perfect union with God through the grace of the Holy Spirit. Man was created in the image and likeness of God, and then sin created a gap between God and mankind, causing damage to our souls. All Christians through baptism receive the seed of Theosis, which is not only to the forgiveness of sins, reconciliation and justification, but also a restoration of God's image. The sinful inclination of our human nature should not govern our behavior anymore; instead we should strive to live a holy life looking towards Jesus Christ the author of our faith, and growing in His knowledge and sonship. The restoration and sanctification of Theosis brings us back into relationship with the Creator. St. Athanasius' presentation of Theosis was summarized as "the reintegration of the divine image of man's creation through the sanctifying work of the Holy Spirit conforming the redeemed into the likeness of the Lord Jesus Christ, and also of the believer's transition from mortality to immortality so that he is enabled to participate in the eternal bliss and glory of the kingdom of God."

Our full union with God is a union with the "energies" of God. These energies, while an extension of God, are not to be confused with the "essence" or "substance" of God, which is unknown by humans and is shared only by the Holy Trinity. Our union with God will not make us gods but will make us partners in the Divine nature in works not in essence. We will not acquire the unique characteristics of God such as being the Creator, the Omnipotent, the Omnipresent, but it will make us partners with Him in building the Kingdom by our own salvation and by winning the souls of others to the Lord Jesus Christ.


Q & A on Theosis [suscopts.org]

So we're good on Lavash and theosis!

I wonder who the Patriarch of Alexandria would be if unification occurred?

Pope Shenouda.

That is assuming that he is still alive when and if that reunion happens.