www.byzcath.org Forums General Discussions Town Hall Carpathian Mountain Outreach 2007

Carpathian Mountain Outreach 2007 [euroteamoutreach.org]

Anyone interested in helping these people evangelize the Godless Orthodox and Byzantine Catholics? If so, here is the application form. [euroteamoutreach.org]

"Godless Orthodox? Holy Proselytism Bat Man!

Ungcsertezs

The website is full of lots of good information. For example,
A Graven Image [euroteamoutreach.org]

They said the local Byzantine Catholic Priest tried to stop them! Oh my!
Evil Byzantine Catholic Priest [euroteamoutreach.org]

It's truly sad .... there are captions all over the photo-diary of an anti-catholic or anti-orthodox spin on it.

On Week 7, we are given this:


While I understand that the Divine Liturgy and the Eastern Christian praxis is foreign to them, we can only pray that they would become illuminated somehow and understand that "we're Christian too" ...

All the more reason to send some of your charitible-bound dollars over to Aid to the Church in Need.

You might be interested to know that the people from the Carpathian Mountain Outreach 2007 are reading this thread. If you have anything constructive to say to them I am sure they will be reading it.

I wish them a safe journey. Although, I do believe they aren't the ones who need to be evangelizing.

Very well.

Their zeal and enthusiasm is commendable - anybody who is that on-fire for Christ that they would pack it all up and live in a tent to go spread the Good Word is to be admired. But it's their choice of target that is totally off base.

They would be better served by taking their zeal and love for spreading the message of Christ by going to a third-world country, and helping build a school, dig a well for fresh water, and teaching children to read.

There are plenty of places were the message of Christ has not been heard - but Ukraine is not one of those places.

The very fact that there are churches all over L'Viv should tell them that they are in a Christian land. Perhaps if they were sat down by one of the priests in Ukraine - Orthodox or Greek Catholic - and properly educated, they would understand that statuary and iconography are not "graven images" or "idols".

I cannot fault people who preach the Gospel.

Also, as a person who is converting from one branch of Christianity (Catholicism) to another (Orthodoxy), I cannot fault people for changing churches to be closer to Christ.

And, yes, they are quite correct when they say that icons and candles cannot save a person because only Jesus saves.

That said, I am curious:

Do the people at "Carpathian Mountain Outreach 2007" believe that only people from their church are saved? In other words, do they reject that Christ has saved and is saving people through the Catholic Church and the Orthodox Church ? Do they believe that the Catholic Church and the Orthodox Church are not true branches of the one Vine that is Christ ?

I would be very interested in reading a reply from members of the "Carpathian Mountain Outreach 2007," and I invite them to create an account so as to discuss this issue at this Forum.

-- John

To the team for the Carpathian Mountain Outreach 2007,

I pose the following question to you:
Christ said, �By their fruits you will know them. Do people pick grapes from thorn bushes, or figs from thistles?� (Matthew 7:16)

The Blessed Theophylact the Bulgarian explains this passage this way, �The heretics are cunning and deceitful, which is why He says, �Beware.� They produce sweet words and feign a decent life, but within lies the hook. �Sheep�s clothing� is meekness, which some pretend to employ, in order to flatter and deceive. But they are recognized by their �fruit�, that is, by their deeds and by their life. For though they can dissemble for a time, they are unmasked by those who are heedful.�

If the Byzantine Catholic Church is cunning and deceitful as you suggest. Then how can it bear fruit? When I speak of fruit I don�t speak of Churches, Schools, Buildings, or Money. No, I speak of thousands and thousands of martyrs who shed their blood for Our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ.

I am speaking of the �recorded� HALF MILLION lay people in Ukraine who were imprisoned or sent into internal exile for �religious reasons.� I am speaking of the �recorded� 344 clergy (bishops, priest, and deacons) who were officially recorded as haven been �repressed.�

I am speaking of martyrs like Blessed Severian in 1941, whose body was tortured and mutilated in the KGB prison camp in Drohobych for his faith in Jesus Christ.

I am speaking of martyrs like Blessed Josaphat Kotsylovsky in 1947, who was martyred in the faith in the Chapaivka concentration camp.

I am speaking of thousands of Babas who hid Bibles and Icons from authorities in the fear if they got caught would be martyred as well. These Babas bravely keep the faith alive by secretly teaching their grandchildren the faith. Many were still hauled off to the camps.

Does this Church sound like it bears any �fruit?�

"Idolatry is real in the Carpathians. Thousands of people every day are praying to stone images which can never save them."

So do these so called "evangelizers" think that the Americans are better replacing stone images with "American Idols", Hollywood entertainers, basketball stars, etc. The Ukrainian govt needs to crack down on these foreign evangelizers or is that politically uncorrect to say?

They say: "We believe that the sixty-six books of the King James Holy Bible constitute the perfectly preserved, inspired, and infallible Word of God to English speaking people.

I say who says that the "King James" version of the Bible is infallible and if its to English speaking people then what does it have to do with Europeans? Who inspired the King James version? A bunch of Shakepherean English/Anglican scholars trying to please the English monarch?

Does anyone have any stories of heroic Babas during the great persacution of the Church? This would be a great place to post such stories.

"A typical Greek Catholic Church in Hrebeniv."


http://www.euroteamoutreach.org/images/ereport/weekpix/week06/026_lg.jpg

That's a good looking Church!

I wish my Church looked like that.

Beautiful!

[quote=bergschlawiner They say: "We believe that the sixty-six books of the King James Holy Bible constitute the perfectly preserved, inspired, and infallible Word of God to English speaking people. [/quote]

If this is so, then the first step in "converting" our people would be teaching them the English language!

There are already many great outreach programs in Slovakia and Ukraine where the Greek Catholics and Orthodox work together and share resources to feed the hungry, cloth people, have orphanages, etc. Just donate to them or stop by and lend a helping hand.
Why create more division among our people? They've dealt with quite a bit in the last 100 years.
Instead help pull together and provide the great Matthew 25 ministries that are taking place already. While everyone needs the Word of God, you do realise that you can't be saved by faith alone.

John:


The simple answer to all your questions is "YES."

From reading their website, I gather that they are generally what can be termed part of the Anabaptist sectarian tradition. Most of the folks that you meet who state their position so boldly would enthusiastically answer yes to all these questions.

Not long ago I had a very nice elderly lady of my acquaintance give me a tract from Chick publications downing the Eucharist as the "death cookie" and Catholics as Hell-bound. She told me of so many ministry opportunities that her ecclesial community had targeted--particularly Greece, the former Soviet Union, Italy, and South America where she felt it was the Lord's call to convert all those Hell-bound Catholics.

BOB