www.byzcath.org Forums Mysteries: The Life of Worship Vespers, Matins & the Divine Liturgy The Revised Divine Liturgy Revised Liturgy Poll

My understanding is that when a person recieves Holy Communion at either the old or the new Divine Liturgy, that person is still receiving Jesus Christ.

If indeed, this is correct, I should hope we all find ourselves overjoyed that we sinners have been invited to such a glorious feast. I should hope that, we -- while doing our part to give our input in how Divine Liturgy should be -- do not lose track of the centeral focus of Divine Liturgy, and allow ourselves to get frustrated or worried about the details of the Rite.

That is not to say that we shouldn't share our thoughts, or that the details are not importaint -- they are importaint. It is, rather, to say that we ought not lose our peace and calm over it.

Your train of thought is actually yet another reason to question why so much good time and money was wasted on this New Liturgy.

Imagine the good that could have been done with all of the time, energy, and money that has already been wasted.

A serious effort at evangelization could have taken place that could have focused on recruiting young families and reducing the 'greying' of our churches that is the status quo currently.

But what we all need to realize is that the end goal of this revision was to, once and for all, make the Byzantine Catholic Church of America isolated from our Orthodox brethern as well as our Greek Catholic brethern. And on that note I have to say mission accomplished.

Let us pray that we don't end up isolating ourselves from into oblivion.

Monomakh

Yes. I am not Pharasaic. I actually believe that our Bishops are doing what they feel is correct. I WILL NOT leave my church because of some rubrical nonsense. When doctrine is changed then I will consider leaving. I can just see all the laity, after they join a new church, saying "as least father I do not worship you with inclusive language but the correct way." While those that stay say, "Lord, forgive me a sinner." Sound familiar? Publican and Pharisee.

While not directly effected by the liturgical whims of Munhall, I must, in all good faith object to the tone and the implication that those who strive to continue the Traditions handed down to them are somehow Pharisaical. If Mr Theologos (a quite ill suited moniker, if I may add) considers the Rubrics and Traditions of the Church to be nonsense, he might just be more comfortable in the "Kumbaya singing", "hand holding", "Praise Jesus", Blue jean clad nuns" sector of the Church that doesn't give a hoot about Tradition.

Apalling................

Alexandr

When a man says, "I am not Pharasaic." He is being Pharasaic.

Dear Theologos:

I think you should reconsider your position with respect to your use of the phrase "rubrical nonsense." I would also avoid drawing sharp distinctions between liturgy and doctrine. We have rubrics for a reason. The principle of "lex orandi, lex credendi" states that the way we worship (including the actual words of the liturgy) informs what we believe. This is a principle embraced by the Orthodox, Eastern Catholics, and Roman Catholics. It is exactly because of the inextricable link we believe exists between liturgy and doctrine that we have rules, or rubrics, that govern the way in which we pray the liturgy.

I certainly respect your beliefs-whatever they are-about the Revised Divine Liturgy, as I respect those of individuals across the spectrum. However, I think that those who oppose the revisions (or at least many of them) do so exactly because they are concerned that the revisions in some way compromise their beliefs. While I'm not sure as to whether I have reached the same conclusion, I do think they are right when they insist that rubrics are important and that the actual words we say in our various liturgies are important.

In peace,
Ryan

If you read the story of the Publican and Pharisee more closely, you'd see that you've got the point exactly backwards. It's the Pharisees that make judgments of others' worthiness. One can say "Lord, forgive me a sinner" like a Pharisee!

LOL!

We can only dream...

no

Fr. Deacon Lance said a while back:

"Those vehemently opposed to the new translation are extremely vocal but also in the minority. The greater part of the faithful are unconcerned, while others are worried because of what they hear from those opposed. But I suspect when they actually see and hear the Liturgy they are going to wonder what all the fuss was about. So it was for those of us at the deacon's retreat."

What Fr. Deacon Lance says above is also true in my own parish. Further, we will have completely transitioned to the new book by Thomas Sunday without any vocal complaints at all, and without any disappearing parishioners.

Jim Sprinkle, Cantor
St. Thomas BC Church, Gilbert, AZ

The administrator wrote:

THEN the following was posted:



If I read Monamakh's post correctly he believes that the Liturgical Commission and all four of our bishops have authorized the new translation SOLELY as a tool against unity.
Truly this is a serious charge which he has repeated several times without challenge; I hope that the administrator will ask the posted to present some semblance of evidence.
Otherwise he should withdraw this accusation and offer an apology.

Father Deacon Paul

Well, it is putting more distance between not only Ruthenian Byzantine Catholics and Ukrainian Byzantine Catholics, but between Ruthenian Byzantine Catholics and ACROD Churches and OCA Churches as well because of the difference in the translation. This is very evident.

U-C

I agree with Father Deacon Paul that Monomakh�s post is written as an accusation, and that he should withdraw the accusation unless he can provide specific evidence.

I will also state that Monomakh�s point would make an excellent question. It is very fair to ask the bishops why they decided to make changes to the Liturgy that destroy the unity we currently hold in our official Liturgy books with our fellow Greek Catholics and the Orthodox.

Admin

I withdraw my statement and ask the following:

Why have our bishops decided to make changes to the Liturgy which destroys the unity we currently hold in our official Liturgy books with our fellow Greek Catholics and the Orthodox?

Deacon Paul, perhaps you will explain the answer first?

Monomakh