www.byzcath.org Forums News & Events Church News What good is a Major Archbishop?

VATICAN CITY, APR 5, 2002 (VIS) - The Holy Father:

- Appointed Fr. Paul Patrick Chomnycky O.S.B.M., superior of the Monastery of St. Basil in Edmonton, Canada, as apostolic exarch for the Ukrainian faithful of the Byzantine rite resident in Great Britain (Catholics 15,000, priests 15, religious 7). The apostolic exarch-elect was born in Van Couver, British Columbia, in 1954 and ordained a priest 1988. The Holy Father also accepted the resignation from the pastoral care of the same apostolic exarcate presented by Bishop Michael Kuchmiak in accordance with canon 210, para. 1 of the Code of Canons of the Eastern Churches. - Appointed Fr. David Motiuk as auxiliary bishop of the archieparchy of the Ukrainian faithful of Winnipeg (Catholics 13,500, priests 43, permanent deacons 19, religious 45), Canada. The bishop-elect was born in Vegreville, Canada, in 1954 and was ordained a priest in 1988.

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I don't mean to stir the pot anymore than it probably will be stirred :p , but I thought that since the Ukrainian Church was under a Major Archbishop, they didn't have to have their bishops appointed by Rome, but instead elect them on their own. So what's the story?

Dear Catholicos,

The story is that probably some weeks from now our parishes will get a bulletin directing us to disregard that stuff about the Pope appointing those bishops, and that it was really the Ukrainian Synod in L'viv that did it.

Or perhaps we'll be told that since our Patriarchal Synod is so incompetent and useless, Rome simply HAD to step in and save us from ourselves by making these appointments.

On the other hand, these episcopal candidates are Basilians, and they do consider themselves to be under the Pope's jurisdiction directly.

They probably would not have obeyed the Synod even if it appointed them bishops directly.

So much for the "Particular" Ukrainian Catholic Church and her rights.

"Major Archbishop" has been translated into a "Patriarch." But when you see things like these, I prefer major anything to the latter title.

Alex

[ 04-05-2002: Message edited by: Orthodox Catholic ]

[ 04-05-2002: Message edited by: Orthodox Catholic ]

In the Eastern Catholic canon law, synods (patriarchal and otherwise) only have jurisdiction in their "home territories." Since western Europe, North & South America, and Australia are not the "home territory" of the Ukrainian Church, the Synod of Bishops cannot appoint hierarchs there. The Holy Father does this.

Dear RichC,

If that is so, then why was our present Bishop said to have been appointed directly by the Synod in Ukraine? And others as well?

Our Synod has the right to appoint bishops anywhere, or so we are being told.

And if the Patriarch's jurisdiction is so limited, why do we commemorate him? Is he only the Patriarch in Galicia?

I am going to contact the administration in L'viv right now and ask them for their take on this, as well as whether they believe the Patriarch can appoint bishops outside of Ukraine.

If I'm wrong, I'm wrong. But then, our clergy here shouldn't be telling us the Synod is appointing our bishops outside of Ukraine when it doesn't have the powers to.

Alex

[ 04-05-2002: Message edited by: Orthodox Catholic ]

[ 04-05-2002: Message edited by: Orthodox Catholic ]

[QUOTE]Originally posted by RichC:
[QB]In the Eastern Catholic canon law, synods (patriarchal and otherwise) only have jurisdiction in their "home territories." Since western Europe, North & South America, and Australia are not the "home territory" of the Ukrainian Church, the Synod of Bishops cannot appoint hierarchs there. The

That is something that drives me nuts. For instance, the Syro Malabars have jurisdiction ONLY in South India--their bishops in the North are auxiliaries to the Latin Archbishops, when the Syro-Malabars have been in India for 1000 years more than the Latins! Sheesh! To me, that's like making the Bishop of Cordoba Spain an auxiliary of the Melkite Patriarch of Antioch!!

anastasios

This has something to do with the discussion about "canonical territory" that claims the ROC. I once heard that the Russian Church made a proposition (specially now, when the Romanian Patriarchate established dioceses in Moldova, and the Roman Catholic Church did the same in Russia), he said that every cannonical church has jurisdiction in its patriarchal territory but if they want to establish a diocese in a different patriarchate they must ask the other church to accept this. But what happens in the West (countires withou patriarchal territories)?
But if the Eastern Catholic Churches were really autonomous, they would be able to establish dioceses for their faithful outside their homeland (I thought that the Ukrainian Catholic Church is for all Ukrainian catholics, not only in Ukraine).

Friends,

Outside the "territory" of patriarchal/major archepiscopal churches, the synod selects three candidates that are forwarded through the patriarch/major archbishop to Rome for appointment by the Pope.

The eparchies of these Churches that are outside the territory are immediately subject to Rome but do not lose their membership in that Church. Their bishops are members of the synod and all liturgical laws enacted by the synod have force. The patriarch may conduct visitations and provides their chrism and ordinations (usually).

This whole outside the territory being immediately subject to Rome thing seems to revolve soley around the married priesthood and the Latin Church's semming need to control that aspect of our lives in places where they are the majority and we are the minority, for outside of that issue Rome lets us do our own thing as far as I can see.

Dustin,

The Syro Malabars do have regular eparchies in Northern India but they are outside the "territory" so they are assigned a designated Latin metropolitan, but they are regular bishops with eparchies not just auxiliaries. This is also the case for all Eastern eparchies that are not part of a province. Refer to Canon 139 of the CCEO

In Christ,
Lance, deacon candidate

Ask the Bishops themselves.


Just read respective canons of CCEO.
Our Synod can only propose a list "of at least
three candidates" for episcopal sees "outside
our proper territory".
BTW, the ancient see of Peremyshl (Przemysl in
Poland) which dates back to the eleventh century
is treated like other sees "outside the territory".


His real powers are confined to the territory of
Ukrainian State. However, the CCEO requires all
UGCC's clerics to commemorate him during the services - all around the world.


Tell us what their answer is.


I am afraid you are.


Yes, the Truth liberates, as St. Paul says. But
haven't you ever heard mere propaganda from the
mouths of our clergymen?

Sincerely,
Reader Peter (absolutely NOT surprised)

We Ukrainian love to get illusioned by ourselves.


The observation about Basilians is generally true.
However, isn't Fr. David Motiuk an eparchial priest?


You should rather say: Particular Ukrainian
Catholic "Church". "Particular" (not universal)
we truly are, in both senses (a piece of a whole
and a being unable to think, feel and act "universally" instead of being interested in
our own ghetto only).


Welcome to the realists' club.
Personally I insist that in order to be named
"Patriarch" one must be ready to sign himself as "Patriarch" and, more generally, act as Patriarch.
His Beatitude Joseph had the courage to do this, so he can be named "Patriarch". You may add the rest yourself...

Sincerely,
Reader Peter

From a standpoint of theology and tradition, I will be the first to admit that Orthodoxy has no particular method of the selection of bishops.

However, from a practical standpoint, I think recent events has shown how disasterous the current Catholic practice is.

I find it shocking that the Catholic bishop of Palm Beach who recently resigned was a child abuser and that his diocese paid a considerable cash settlement to the victim and this somehow escaped the attention of those who made him bishop of Palm Beach.

Clearly, these episcopal selections are being made by a narrow and non-consultative clique. The laity, priesthood, and others need to have sodme FORMAL role in the election of bishops. Otherwise these scandals will continue.

Axios

Christ is Risen!

Dear Peter,

It seems to me that all the Greek Catholics, regardless of nationality, need to rally together to choose by synod, vote, or acclamation, a Patriarch recognized by all Greek Catholics descended from Sts. Cyril and Methodius. Cardinal Lubomyr Husar is Patriarch in Ukraine, but has only moral authority elsewhere. He has said he would serve as Bishop to a Kyivan Patriarch who was in communion with Rome. We, outside of Ukraine, have to begin acting like we are the same Church, not Roman, not Orthodox, not nationalist, just Christian and just us.

Congratulations on the birth of baby Julia. I see you named her after my Mother's favorite aunt. May she be blessed with many years of peace and good health.

John
Pilgrim and Odd Duck

Code of Canons of the Eastern Churches:

Chapter 1: The Roman Pontiff

CAN. 43

The Bishop of the Roman Church, in whom continues the office (munus) given by the Lord uniquely to Peter, the first of the Apostles, and to be transmitted by his successors, is the head of the college of bishops, the Vicar of Christ and pastor of the entire Church on earth. By virtue of his office (munus) he possesses supreme, full, immediate and universal ordinary power in the Church which he is always able to exercise freely.

Webster's Collegiate Dicitonary

Ordinary

1. A prelate exercising original jurisdiction over a specified territory or group.

2. Having or constituting immediate or original jurisdiction; also: belonging to such jursdiction.

Remember that the COCEC was written by the Roman Church. Until the second Vatican Council, Eastern Catholic Churches were an excentric, perhaps heretical, rite within the Roman Catholic Church and directly under the authority of the Pope.

Do you really think that the Roman Catholic Church could give up her "Colonial" mentality in just a 1/2 century?

The Pope is in Charge and everything else is just a public spectacle to persuade the Orthoox into Communion with Rome. (I don't think they are buying into it ). The Ukrainian Church had to get permission to establish The Exarchate in Kharkiv. Are our Hierarchs pleased? Many are not. But we have to remember that we are in the midst of a giant political machine that cannot be overcome at once.

On the positive side, the Roman Catholic Church did give us a seperate Canon Law and it IS
a start. We have only been a free church for 10 years. We will act as a truly Universal Church with our own authority. We also need to be patient. Some of our hierarchs are pro-Roman while others are not. I could discuss this issue forever. Ultimately, we can change this by being informed members of our community and cordially challenging our bishops to act as hierarchs with real authority. Remember that currently, most of our Bishops are in their 60's, which put them in a pre-Vatican II viewpoint of our church, Her identity, and relation to Her sister churches.

Also, even though our Church does not appoint the Bishops outside of our "traditional" territory (And Peremyshl is currently considered outside of our traditional territory ), they are taking a more active role and are working to establish that right for our synod and future Patriarch.

So, Alex, in many ways we do not appoint our bishops, but we do have, and will continue to HAVE an ever incresing role in that process. Ultimately, we will be the decision makers for our church, not Rome. The reason that we do not go ahead with the "damn the torpedoes" mentality is because according to CAN 43, above, we do not have that authority. Simply put, if we could we would, but we can't, so we don't. I am not an insider so I do not know the how and why. The reality is just that we can't do it . . . yet. But we will.

If for whatever reasons we are not able to do so politically in the future, one question may be brought up:

Being that Ukraine is a free and secure state, will the Ukrainian Greek Catholic Church, decide that the conditions for unity with the Roman Church, i.e. territorial control by a foreign and Roman Catholic power/state (Poland/Lithuainia) are no longer relevant and decide to leave Communion with the Roman Catholic hierarch, and reunite with their Orthodox brethren in Ukraine under a Kyivan Patriarchate in canonical union with Constantinople?

I officially give no personal answer to this question, neither supporting nor endorsing any, or all sides.

In Christ,
Ality

Lviv Theological Academy conference on Ukrainian Catholic Canon Law [lta.lviv.ua]

Being that Ukraine is a free and secure state, will the Ukrainian Greek Catholic Church, decide that the conditions for unity with the Roman Church, i.e. territorial control by a foreign and Roman Catholic power/state (Poland/Lithuainia) are no longer relevant and decide to leave Communion with the Roman Catholic hierarch, and reunite with their Orthodox brethren in Ukraine under a Kyivan Patriarchate in canonical union with Constantinople?

I officially give no personal answer to this question, neither supporting nor endorsing any, or all sides.

In Christ,
Ality

From a truly universal Catholic perspective, what on Earth is wrong with the Greek Catholic Church being under Romes authority? Are Eastern Catholics better then the rest of the Catholic Church in having some special need to be completely self governing?

Why on earth would anyone who is in the Catholic Church want not to be under the Pope anyway? After all, the Orthodox are already in a sort of communion with Rome already for as much as individual Orthodox may recieve the sacrements in Catholic Churches.

But, from a C P, the thing that makes Eastern Catholics not only unique but special is the fact that they are not just connected to the Catholic fold by some hazy ecumenical tye union of "Im okay, your okay" but are a living, breathing,part of that Church working with all the other rights for the salvation of mankind. This is whats is important (From a C P) The religion, the right is secondary (But still extremely important as well as necessary).

It would be wrong for tthe Ukrainian people to abandone the Church of the apostles and martyrs (again C P) soly for a nationalisitc "I want to be on my own because I just do" mentality. This is the sin of pride which, if you recall, is rather serious.

Robert K.

Filed this in the wrong part of the forum. Forgive me.

Your brother in Christ,
Thomas

[ 04-06-2002: Message edited by: Thomas ]

Ality,
Which of our bishops are pro- Roman and which are not?
-ukrainiancatholic