www.byzcath.org Forums News & Events Church News Byzantine Catholic Deacon to appear on the History Channel

From Envoy magazine:

Father Deacon David Hess (co-author of "Jesus, Peter & The Keys" and profiled in volume 5.1 of Envoy Magazine) will be a featured guest on the upcoming History Channel show entitled "Peter the Rock."

Be sure to tune in to the History Channel (check your local listings) this coming Saturday evening (March 30) at 8:00 p.m. to 9:30 p.m. ET.

The History Channel describes the show:


He was a simple fisherman on the Sea of Galilee until Jesus of Nazareth promised to make him a "fisher of men." The man we know as St. Peter was the leader among the Apostles--the rock upon which the foundation of the Church was built and the keeper of the keys to the Kingdom of Heaven. We trace the life of Peter, from his humble beginnings to martyrdom in Rome in 64 A.D. We also look at the Vatican's shocking announcement in 1968--that the bones of St. Peter had been found! TV G

David Hess will be joined by other Catholic commentators to discuss the biblical and historical evidence surrounding St. Peter's role in the Twelve Apostles and the early Christian Church. Tune in and enjoy the insights and information. You can e-mail Dave with your comments about the show at revdavidhess@hotmail.com.

Also, in case you missed it, click here to read Envoy Magazine's profile on Dave!
http://www.envoymagazine.com/backissues/5.1/diplomaticcorps.htm

Dave Ignatius DTBrown@aol.com

http://www.catholic-forum.com/members/popestleo/index.html

[ 03-28-2002: Message edited by: DTBrown ]

Deacon David is at the Ruthenian church in town and came to our parish dedication last December and we have run into him several times, and hes a good deacon both spiritually and liturgically.

To this day I have not seen a decent account or representation of Orthodoxy (that is, Christianity) on TV while most are outright attacks.

So why am I not excited about this one?

There is no way in hell that there will ever be unity based on the ideas expressed in "Jesus, Peter and the Keys". If this is representative of what Byzantine Catholics believe about the Papacy, then that is ample evidence as to why Byzantine Catholics are not "Orthodox", for that book and its contents will never be accepted by the Orthodox -- even by the most ecumenically-oriented Orthodox. Nevertheless, it is a useful wake-up call to those Byzantine Catholics who contend until they are blue in the face that they have a different understanding of the Papacy than the Latin Catholics do, etc. -- here is a book by one of your own clergy that iterates the Latin view lock, stock and barrel, and that should certainly be excellent food for thought for the Orthodox-leaning Byzantine Catholics.

Brendan

When did this turn into an ecumenical debate?

Brendan,

I did not watch it, because of experience and other reasons, but it sounds like I should be glad I didn't.

Peter - the keys, what non-sense.

Perhaps one day if the Latins ever get the chance to prop themselves up above all of their legalisms they would realize that the pope can't be the bishop of Rome since he is a monarch in another country; the Vatican. :p

OthodoxyorToenailfungus,

I sense a bit of sarcasm from you! You sound like the fundamentalists I used to work with - the same fundamentalists that are now evangelizing Orthodox Russia and are turning it into Bible Belt East.

No wonder my greatgrandfather fled partitoned Poland when 'Orthodox" Russia ruled over it.

Happy Easter to all!

Because the devil will send forth his messengers to spread the message of division among the faithful. Unfortunately, some well meaning people will fall into this trap.

Those who know and do and believe everything exactly the right way will turn on those who see things differently. Those with perfect understanding of God's will and purpose will condemn those who have a simple belief in Jesus and seek understanding of things which seem mysterious.

Those who believe that the power of Satan or the weakness of God causes the largest body of Christian believers to be led astray will continue to do so. Those who believe in the Jesus who founded One Church upon One Rock will pray that the living Body of Christ will be brought together.

Only in Heaven can this be done.

Even on this day of death and sadness, there is the promise of eternal triumph.

Have a Blessed Day!

John
Pilgrim and Odd Duck

The idea that St. Peter held a primacy of honor in the apostolic Church is one that Orthodox Christianity has always believed. St. Peter was indeed given the keys to the kingdom of heaven, as related in the 16 chapter of the gospel of St. Mathew. This cannot be denied and must merely be believed.
However Christ also gave the power to bind and loose to his other apostles as well after the REssurection.

This however does not in any way diminish the fact that Christ looked upon Peter as the head of the apostles and indeed he commisioned him to feed his lambs and sheep. St. Peter went on to die a martyrs death in Romeand it was Rome down thorugh the first ten centuries which held both the primacy of honor as well as the right to convene an ecumenical council. Orthodoxy never denied this but only protested when the Popes begain to attempt to extend their jurisdiction over the Eastern Patriarchates.

It always both disgust and somewhat humors me when a number of Orthodox get all bent out of shap over this simple fact. I have even heard Orthodox who try and claim that St. Peter never was in Rome at all during his life even though the apostolic tradition of the Church always held that he was. There seems to be more of an influx of such ridiculous notions as more and more protestants enter Orthodoxy with their pre concevied notions on the "way things should be done". I guess while you Greek Catholics have your Latinizations to fight as we Orthodox have now to combat "protestantizations".
I must admit that the fact that our Lord gave the keys of his kingdom to Peter has always rather bothered me in that it is a clear sign of something more then primacy to Peter. While he may have given his other apostles the power to forgive sins, no sort of primacy priveladge was givn to anyone else but Peter. Why I, an Orthodox Christian ask? Why was Peter given the keys and told to feed the flock of the Lord? Orthodox feel very uncomfortable for the most part and have never given a conscise answer to this question (At least that I have ever heard). Perhaps osmeone will actually give me one on this forum that will forever put my mind to rest on the subject, once and for all.
Robert K.

Robert,

I agree with your assessment. I am surprised to read stuff by some Orthodox against a Petrine ministry in the Church which seems to be echoing Protestant apologists. The history of the Church in the first millennium is quite complicated. But, there is no doubt that the popes of Rome held a high view of their papal prerogatives. Whether such was always accepted by the East is not as conclusive (though there are some pretty strong indications for it--such as the Formula of St Hormisdas).

Dave Ignatius DTBrown@aol.com

Roman Popes who are Orthodox Saints

http://www.catholic-forum.com/members/popestleo/orthopopes.html

Getting back to the topic, did anyone watch the show?

Yes, and Bartholomew holds a pretty high view of himself and writes exhausting treatises describing it.

In fact, the last bishops he elevated where APPOINTED not elected!

I'm sure someday people will be digging up all these texts *proving* Bartholomew was a monarch too.

As for the Bishop of Rome, his perogitives were only that due to the most important city, for as long as it was the most important city. Just like Modern-day Istanbul, after it lost it's glory they tried to hang on to what was not there.

And the bishop of Rome NEVER had the right to convene an ecumenical council nor were they ever even held anywhere near Rome. In fact, of all the Ecumenical Councils the pope only attended one.

OrthodoxyOrDeath,

C'mon man, nobody needs to defend everything that popes have ever done to understand that we, as Orthodox, need the Pope as much (or more)as he needs us. I can even believe that Papal prerogatives were grossly exaggerated in the past or even in the present and yet still believe that Orthodoxy would benefit from the Petrine office properly exercised. I mean, we haven't had a council in a long, long, time. I realize there have been some difficult times, but we've still needed one, and we need one now. Does Constantinople have what it takes to make a council happen? I know Orthodox Clergy who believe that we can't have a truly ecumenical council without Rome's involvement (and just because the Pope wasn't there himself doesn't mean Rome wasn't involved)

Look, I don't want to start a fight with you, it's just that we need our brothers.
What do you think?

David

Amen David!

...And may I add, your brothers need you as well. God Bless you as you fast through this Orthodox Lenten season.

IC XC NIKA,
-Nik!

David,

I don't want to start a fight with you either, you sound much bigger than me.

What exactly do we need another council for?

What do we need a so-called "Petrine office" for? What exactly is a "Petrine office" anyway?

In Orthodoxy (Christianity), there are priests, and there are High Priests (bishops) - there is no higher office than that. A bishop together with a priest and even a small flock is complete and lacks nothing.

The Apostles were bishops, they were not "popes", so is there someone here who is going to suggest that a "pope" is higher than an Apostle? Is there someone who is going to suggest that a person elevated to bishop by an apostle in the city of Smyrna is lower than a person elevated to bishop in Rome?

What, do we now believe in some kind of magic that a city has mystical power and a person can call himself a bishop without regard to sound doctrine simply because of that city? lol As if "Rome" has more authority than "Christ". Why are so many people impressed by such meaningless worldly formulas invented for the prestige of a few men?

Just like when the Apostles woke Jesus because they were afraid the storm was going to sink their boat. What little minds we all have.

In the end, you either believe in the Popes version of Matthew 16 or you believe in the Orthodox tradition, they are not both correct and there is a word for incorrect doctrine.

I do not need my brothers to be saved. I love my brothers and I pray they will join the Church, I will talk to them, but I choose to separate myself from all who do not follow Christ and his Church.

[ 04-01-2002: Message edited by: OrthodoxyOrDeath ]