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I think that the key word sould be "respect" you respect the jurisdiction over you. On one hand the Latin West does not have a problem in admitting Orthodox Christians to communion. but if you look at the guidelines it does encourage them to consult their clergy and bishops before approaching Holy Communion in a Latin Church. Respect brothers and sisters respect!
Stephanos I

So if there are differences in the way the priest allows certain things between, let's say different parishes in a certain jurisdiction, that means that they are not in communion?


First, what are those circumstances? Second, how do we know if the Orthodox are right or the Catholics. . . or the Protestants. . . or the Lutherans. . . or any other of the thousands of denominations. They all believe they are right in their beliefs. Are we to judge them?

I'm sorry, I'm still confused. Maybe I just don't get it.

Searching

Dear Searching,
Here is the canon in the West.
Canon 844.3 Catholic ministers may licitly administer the sacraments of Penance (Confession) Eucharist and Anointing of the Sick to member of the Oriental Churches which do not have full communion with the Catholic Church, if they ask on their own for the sacraments and are properly disposed. This holds also for members of other Churches , which in judgement of the Apostolic See are in the same condition as the Oriental Churches as far as these sacraments are concerned.
844.5 For the cases in paragraph 2,3 &4, neither the dicocesan bishop nor the conference of bishops is to enact general norms except after consultation with at least the local competant authority of the intested non Catholic church or community.
Stephanos I

No, and I think it is to be expected that individual priests will handle pastoral issues in different ways and will use their own discretion to exercise economy or strictness as they feel appropriate. They are all working off the same "playbook" so to speak however; and in this case the church has said in its best judgment participating in the Eucharist should be limited to ones own faith communion because it is such a deep bond, both between the individual believer and God and between the individual believer and the rest of the faith community. That isn't to say that one can't visit another church, participate in prayers or likewise invite others to our churches, pray with them and show hospitality and Christian charity.


You can only use your own judgment to examine the claims of these groups. Ultimately it may not be intellecutal assent that guides you but your heart or intuition that something is right or true, or at least right for you.

I would like just to quote the official translation (from Latin) of the Canons as they appear on the Vatican website, as the word "Oriental" and other words have been "improved" for clarity:

Protestants under no circumstances may receive communion though in the RCC, correct?

And it is my heart which makes me feel the way I do.


BTW thank you. Most times when I ask these questions among my peers, they'd rather catch an attitude and insist that the Orthodox are right, no matter what.

Searching

AMM,

I don't think that that is true. I believe that if a Protestant recieves the Eucharist in Good Faith in the Holy Mysteries and it is an emergency like the person is about to die, then I think it is allowed. This is extremely rare and I've never heard of it being done, only in theory.

God Bless You and have a happy Pascha if we don't cross paths until then,

Dr. Eric

searching:

Unless I miss my guess, you have been baptised in the Greek Orthodox Church but have had little contact with the Church since that time. It seems to me, from your questions, that you have had little catechesis from that Church. If you had, these questions would already have been answered for you.

The quotes from the Catholic Church, of which the Byzantine Catholic Church is a sui juris member, are accurate. You would be welcome to Holy Communion and you should obey the particular law of your own Church.

In the meantime, you might also consider if you should approach the Holy Mysteries anywhere before you determine what Church you belong to. If you've been away for some period, you should approach the Mystery of Confession before approaching the Holy Mysteries of the Lord's Holy Body and Most Precious Blood. Neither the Catholic or the Orthodox Church encourages people to just casually approach the Mysteries. You could, as St. Paul says, be "guilty of the Body and Blood of the Lord" if you approach casually. "But let a man examine himself . . ." (see I Corinthians 11:23 to 32).

In Christ,

BOB

Almost true. The Catholic Bishops in the United States have stated that the circumstances wherein Protestants may commune are extremely rare in this country because everyone has access to ministers of his own.

These pastoral provisions are made within a set of assumptions that are often missed when people simply read the rules and start to interpret them for themselves. The provisions envision someone who has been unable to approach his own clergy for a long period of time or is in some danger. They don't mean casual attendance at a Catholic Liturgy or a wedding or a funeral. They don't mean that because one has not communed within the last month that they ought to avail oneself of the Mysteries. The original discussion at the Vatican Council centered around people who found themselves in Siberia or some other hostile environment where they were isolated from clergy for longer periods or distances and who had not been able to go to confession or Holy Communion. Catholics were told that they could approach Orthodox clergy and do whatever was required to save their spiritual life. And Catholic clergy were told to extend the same pastoral care to Orthodox Christians who had no contact with their own priests for prolonged periods.

We're not talking about lapses fo discipline or doctrinal syncretism here. We're talking about reaching out to people who are desperately in need. That hardly applies in the United States.

In Christ,

BOB

Can't recall where either Fr. Alexander Men or Fr. Sergius Bulgakov advocate for Orthodox communion at RC Churches?

Please provide a quote or link. As admirer of both of these Fathers, it would be very interesting for me to see.


And I have a serious answer my friend!
The Hierarchy of my Church forbids us to Commune at Catholic Churches. For that meter all Orthodox Churches who are a part of SCOBA forbid their faithful to partake at Catholic Parishes.

There are strict Canons against disobeying one's Bishop. Can we agree on that? It than follows that an Orthodox taking communion at Catholic Church is in fact breaking the canons of Orthodoxy.

Furthermore there are passages in the Gospels, not unlike one I have pointed out, which suggest rather strongly that we solve our differences first, before we partake of the same Cup.

I hope this puts us, on the same page

I do not say these things because I am mean spirited. I am simply speaking what I think is the truth.

Dr. Eric and theophan, thank you for the explanation.


Everybody is different. Maybe your peers have deeply held beliefs they feel strongly about. That in and of itself isn�t wrong. You have to be able to deal with doubts, struggles and questions though. We all have them. Having deeply held beliefs doesn�t do you much good if you�re missing things like charity and compassion though.

Anyway, as someone who chose Orthodoxy I don�t think we�re wrong in the meaningful sense, though I certainly would agree we do many individual things poorly and in general act like a bunch of sinners. I do feel like Orthodoxy gives me the freedom to affirm what is right and good in the church without having to go around criticizing the beliefs of others or speculating about who has received God�s grace and who hasn�t. Do I at times, or too often, slip in to judgmentalism? Certainly.

In this country I think most of us face the situation where we have to navigate a religious landscape that is largely non Orthodox and non Eastern Christian. Christmas is on a different day, Easter is usually on a different day, we do different things. In many ways we are out of step with many people both religious and non religious. Most of us at a personal level also have to deal with the fact that we will have friends and family who are most likely part of another Christian group, part of another religion or simply a non believer. It all gets complicated.

I came to the church in my own way, perhaps not typical. I don�t enjoy the arguments about faith or who is right and who is wrong that many people engage in, though at times again I can find myself drawn in to them. That�s not say I�m against discussion of differences, just not the tear down approach. Choosing where I am though certainly was not a matter of intellectual assent or perception that somebody had won a debate. It�s a leap, just as faith in God is. There were however certainly principles I found I agreed with, and most importantly I came in contact with a faith community I simply felt at home in. That perhaps was the most important factor.

I can cite two very well known instances, and very public, where the above-cited Canon 844, section 4, was applied vis-a-vis Protestants.

(1) The late Pope John Paul II gave communion to UK's Prime Minister Blair, an Anglican, each time during the latter's two official visits to the Vatican. The late Pope always invited PM Blair and his entire family to the private papal Mass. Mrs. Blair and all the children are Catholic. The Pope is more than the "diocesan" Bishop of Rome; he is the Universal Pastor and the Supreme Pontiff, the supreme legal authority, in the Catholic Church.

(2) The late Brother Roger, the Protestant leader of the TAIZE ecumenical community in France, always received Holy Communion during Catholic services. It was explained by Brother Alois, a Catholic and now the successor, that the local diocesan Bishop gave permission in accordance with the Code of Canons. Thus, during the Funeral Mass for the late Pope John Paul II, then Cardinal Ratzinger gave Holy Communion to Brother Roger on his wheelchair. Speculations were rife then that Brother Roger had already converted to the Catholic faith but it was debunked by the TAIZE community afterward. Brother Roger apparently remained a Protestant until his untimely death but had acquired, and believed in, the Catholic understanding of the Holy Eucharist.

So a Protestant who never converts, but believes in the Catholic understanding of the Eucharist, can receive dispensation to regularly participate in that sacrament? Am I understanding that correctly, because I actually find that highly confusing

As to non-Catholic apostolic Eastern Christians, I think it was discussed here before that in many areas in the Middle East there is intercommunion between the Chaldeans and the Assyrians and between the Melkites and the Antiochians, which spilled over into the U.S.?

Particularly between Ukrainian Catholics and Ukrainian Orthodox, I think Alex the Great (aka Orthodox Catholic in this Forum) once said that there is a "sporadic" intercommunion in Canada?