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These are the only two instances that I personally know of where Canon 844, section 4, was applied as regards Protestants. There might be others but were never publicized?

In the case of PM Blair's reception of Holy Communion from the late Pope John Paul II, the dispensation came from the Pope, at least implicitly. (If PM Blair attends Mass in the UK with his Catholic wife and children, I would presume that the Catholic local ordinary had given him the required dispensation.)

Brother Roger received his dispensation from the local ordinary.

I think this is not highly confusing. But it is unusual and out of the ordinary.

I guess to me, I have to fall back on what Fr. Harakas said. The Eucharist is interconnected to all the other sacraments, I can't see separating it out (I mean beyond very exceptional circumstances). In particular it is connected to confession and absolution.

It is to me not only about belief in Christ's real presence in what we receive, it's about an affirmation of connectedness at every level of faith. In other words when I take the Eucharist I am not only affirming what I believe about the Eucharist, I'm making an affirmation of the church. The Eucharist itself is the foundation of the church.

So this is why it does not make sense to me.

Amen! Unfortunately, for over a thousand years our fathers have been coming up to the altar without having been reconciled with each other ...


Peace,
Deacon Richard

Dear Deacon Richard,

I fear that many will be answering to God, for not having done whatever they could for Christian unity.

God Bless,

Zenovia

Zenovia,

In 1928, Pope Pius XI essentially quelled the growing ecumenical sentiment among Catholics at that time by essentially reiterating the ancient dictum: "there is no such thing as schism within the Church, there is only schism from the Church."

Although there certainly have been exceptions, for the most part for centuries the best and holiest on both sides, Catholic and Orthodox, were fiercely loyal to their respective churches. To them, the idea of compromising that church's stand in any way was unthinkable--how can anyone dare to compromise the pure doctrine of God?

That attitude persists today among many Catholics, despite Vatican II, and it certainly persists among many Orthodox. Furthermore, the fact that a good number of "ecumenists" would be more than willing to "give away the store" goes a long way to confirm them in their steadfastness.

To me, the key to true ecumenism lies in the fact that there is no grace and no holiness outside the Church--so if we are able to discern the operation of grace and the existence of holiness outside the boundaries of what we know as "the Church," then there are two possibilities: either our judgment is incorrect, or there really is such a thing as "schism within the Church." Furthermore, the same God who continues to operate on both sides of this division will certainly guide the churches on the path to unity--if that path is sought and followed in this spirit.

Forunately for us Catholics, we now have such authoritative guidelines as Pope John Paul's dictum:

Peace,
Deacon Richard

The assertion that there can be no such thing as schism within the Church; there can only be schism from the Church is beloved of ecclesiastical bureaucrats but does not square with the known historical (and present) behavior of the Church. It is often important to notice not only what the ecclesiastical bureaucrats say, even at the highest level, but what the Church actually does.

On the Catholic side of the house, we may remark that it occasionally happens that this or that "schismatic" group is reconciled with the Holy See without being required to repudiate the previous state of affairs. As is well known, the Catholic Church is prepared to administer the Eucharist to Eastern Orthodox, Oriental Orthodox, and "pre-Ephesinian" Christians. As is not always so well known, there is at the present an interesting Eucharistic relationship between the Catholic Church and the Polish National Catholic Church in North America: Polish National Catholic bishops, clergy, and faithful are welcome to receive Holy Communion at Catholic celebrations of the Eucharist.

And the Orthodox side of the house? Well, only last month (May) we saw a most joyful event: the reconciliation of the Patriarchate of Moscow and the Russian Orthodox Church Outside of Russia, without any requirement for either side to repudiate anything.

Something similar took place almost twenty years ago to the benefit of the Serbian Orthodox Church, which had suffered a severe schism in the diaspora. The schism was reconciled, thanks be to God, and the Serbian Patriarch gave a very moving sermon in which he said:

"We shall be asked who has been victorious and who is defeated. We must know how to answer this question. There is only One Victor, the Lord Jesus Christ, Who went even to Hell to find His brothers, and there is only one who is defeated, the Devil, who tempted Cain to kill his brother. We must never even look on the road of Cain, and under no circumstances are we to walk upon that road."

So it is particularly appropriate that, offering congratulations to the Russian Church on the reconciliation, the Serbian Church remembered that through all these years the Serbian Church had remained in communion, both with the Russian Orthodox Church Outside of Russia and with the Moscow Patriarchate.


So yes, much as it grieves the bureaucrats, schism within the Church is possible, and the reconciliation of such a schism does not require the pretense that one side or the other was outside of the Church.

Fr. Serge

It seems people are forgetting the PASTORIAL SPIRITUAL reasons to have intercommunion. Why must one starve a soul from Eternal Manna from Heaven?

I think that all of these legalism mumbo jumbo is sooo silly. Why is there so much emphasis on Eucharist being a "SYMBOL" of Church communion when Eucharist is TRULY THE FOOD AND DRINK for the soul???

We both came from Apostolic roots and have valid Mysteries....so there's NO reason to deprive each other of Spiritual needs such as Eucharist to fill one's soul simply because the physical part of the Church is separated. Sad!

Let's stop being greedy to hold Body of Christ away from those who are truly Baptized and Chrismated (Catholic & Orthodox only).

NOBODY on earth...not even the Pope of Rome...OWNS Jesus Christ's Body and Blood as if He's a piece of property. NO ONE!

In the meantime, let us all pray for speedy recovery to unity.

SPDundas
Deaf Byzantine

AMEN!!!!!!!

Because it is precisely its function as Food and Drink for the soul that makes it the Symbol of unity. The two concepts are not at odds with one another but inseparably united.

I am beginning to think that Our Lord will judge us less on whom we share Communion with than whom we deny it to.


Peace,
Deacon Richard

Slava Isusu Khrestu

I think of the many times when I wished to receive for I remember a line that I read once before... "Echarist is the antidote to death of the soul".

How many have died when an antidote for the soul was denied!


Would we deny one who was bitten by a snake, the antivenom? ( In this day and age of hospital care, health insurance and HMO's probably!)

I am not a theologian... far from it... but a sinner searching in desperation .

I just sighed here!

Z Bohom
Nycholaij the sinner

Why not commune Protestants then.

Because they aren't a member of a Church (Catholic & Orthodox) that is of the Apostolic Succession and they do not contain "valid" Mysteries (especially Mystery of Chrismation and Mystery of Holy Orders).

The Protestant Churches that may have possible valid Mysteries is Lutheran and Angelican. But that's questionable especially about the Angelicans because of their ordaination of female ministers. But Lutherans don't have Apostolic Succession...while is very very narrowly possible that Angelicans do.

I guess it's all sticky when it comes to Angelicans...I guess that's why it's taking longer than expected for the Vatican to work things out with them.

But I do know that both Churches (Catholic & Orthodox) desire Christian unity and are working hard to achieve the goal that "all may be one" just as Christ prayed for.

SPDundas
Deaf Byzantine

Neither church sees things this way though. Each (Catholic and Orthodox) states in their own ways that they are the church and contain the fullness of truth. Once you abandon that idea, you're just establishing your own conception of what the church is based on whatever criteria you may believe it consists of (apostolic succession for instance). That leaves the door open to all kinds of interpretations about what the church is, and naturally leads to questions like why not offer communion to anyone who desires it.


I think that's balderdash. Communion is not restricted from anyone, anyone can join the church and receive so long as they adhere to the standards of the church. One might not like that answer, but it is the case.

Also, IIRC, when an Orthodox priest is ordained they are told that how they guard the lamb is how they will be judged. So I believe the reality is the other way around.

Well...it's my humble theory...it's because of sin of pride. If we humbly sit and reflect on what the fullness of the Church really means. Then we'll admit that we've become prideful (our church is better than yours, ours is true and you're not, etc.).

I do not have a very narrow vision of that.