www.byzcath.org Forums Faith & Christian Life The Christian East & West St. Photios?

Does there exist any documentation of any significant devotion or liturgical commemoration to Saint Photios amongst Eastern Catholics prior to the post-Vatican II era?

As a practical matter, I rather doubt it - unless perhaps in some obscure church calendar whose editors did not realize precisely whom they were commemorating.

A conscious commemoration of St. Photius could only have occurred after the landmark work of Father Francis Dvornik, published around 1948. Inevitably, it took a few years for the liturgical implications of this book to percolate through various circles.

It appears, incidentally, that the Church of Constantinople has only admitted the veneration of Saint Stephen of Hungary earlier in this present decade. So it goes.

Christ is Risen!

Fr. Serge

Dear Friends,

For that matter, Sts Vladimir and Olha were canonized ONLY by the Orthodox Church as saints in the post-Schism era in the 13th century . . . They are in the Roman Calendar, together with Sts. Roman and David (Boris and Hlib).

But as Father Sergius Keleher always taught me (when he was still on THIS side of the pond!) is that "we do not question each other's canonizations."

The only thing that would prevent St Photios' liturgical veneration is if he or anyone else were condemned as heretics etc.

St Photios was never condemned as such and neither, for that matter, was St Mark of Ephesus.

And there really was a UGCC priest in the US who wanted to form a brotherhood named for St Mark of Ephesus . . .

In addition, let us always remember from the life of St Josaphat Kuncevyc that he always insisted on the veneration of all Orthodos Saints to be found in the calendar prior to the Unia . . .

Alex

My priest contacts from the UGCC Eparchy of Chicago (names are omitted to protect the innocent ) told me also that we do not question each other's canonizations and that if we truly are Orthodox in Communion with Rome, then we can venerate Sts. Photios, Mark of Ephesus, Seraphim of Sarov, Basil the Holy Fool, etc...

How many Byzcaths have Icons of these Saints in their Icon Corners?

Ok. I don't want anyone to think my post is worthy of another thread, but I woud like toadd my comments in regards to what is being discussed here.

Why don't you byzcaths and orthodox publish saints trading cards? Establish trading clubs. outdo Pokemon fad.

I can hear the youth now. "I got Photius, whadya got?"
"I have Augustine and Mark of Ephesus" "My Saint Theresa is a hologram!" "I have two Anthonys"

Eddie

Wasn't there a movie where Ben Stiller was a Rabbi who collected Famous Rabbi Trading Cards?

There was also a Simpsons Episode in which Ned Flanders got the neighborhood kids to collect and trade Bible Heroes Cards.

"In addition, let us always remember from the life of St Josaphat Kuncevyc that he always insisted on the veneration of all Orthodos Saints to be found in the calendar prior to the Unia . . ."

Where did you learn this?

Commemorated by the Byzantine Catholic Church
Saint Photius: Feb 6
Saint Seraphim of Sarov: Jan 2
Saint Basil, Fool for Christ: Aug 2

I'll start. I have:

Photius the Great
Mark of Ephesus
Seraphim of Sarov
Avvakum the Hieromartyr
Glicherie of Romania
John of Shanghai
Jonah of Manchuria
Theophan the Recluse
The Royal Martyrs of Russia
Nectarius of Aegina
John of Kronstadt
Nicholas Planas of Athens
Severus of Antioch
Gregory of Perumal

Of your list, these four also have prominence in my house

Photius the Great
Seraphim of Sarov
Theophan the Recluse
The Holy Royal Martyr Children of Russia

As well as

St. Elizabeth the Grand Duchess (Russian Orthodox)
St. Monica (Latin Catholic, though of the undivided church)
St. Verena (Coptic Orthodox)
St. Sophia of Thrace (presumably Greek Orthodox)

Dear St Josaphat Kuncevyc (may I call you 'Joe?' )

Yes, this was the policy of the EC Metropolia to which St Josaphat belonged and all the saints glorified in the period of the schism after 1204 in fact were kept on the calendar of the Kyivan Metropolia that came into union with Rome.

It was only in the 19th century in the time of the Austro-Hungarian period that the imperial government demanded that the Greek-Catholic Church remove a number of "very Orthodox" saints (and also miraculous icons of the Theotokos) from its calendar at a time that it was fighting Russia and was afraid of Russophile tendencies in Galicia.

St Josaphat was known as a very traditionalist ECer and he opposed vehemently the plan to introduce the Carmelite Order into the EC church (this is discussed in the book on him in Ukrainian that I have). He opposed every single Latinization as well.

In addition, Bl Basil Velychkovsky C.Ss.R., as we see from his memoirs published in Winnipeg by the Ukr. Redemptorists, continued this tradition and in his work among the Orthodox in Volyn, Bl. Basil kept ALL the Orthodox saints, including the most local ones, in the Greek-Catholic calendar.

In his memoirs, he also chided those Greek Catholics who "made fun" of Orthodox saints and commented positively on the "holiness of their lives" etc.

Bl. Basil made a study of the Orthodox traditions of Volyn and kept all of them in the Greek-Catholic Church there as well.

Alex

Dear St Josaphat Kuncevyc (may I call you 'Joe?' )

Yes, this was the policy of the EC Metropolia to which St Josaphat belonged and all the saints glorified in the period of the schism after 1204 in fact were kept on the calendar of the Kyivan Metropolia that came into union with Rome.

It was only in the 19th century in the time of the Austro-Hungarian period that the imperial government demanded that the Greek-Catholic Church remove a number of "very Orthodox" saints (and also miraculous icons of the Theotokos) from its calendar at a time that it was fighting Russia and was afraid of Russophile tendencies in Galicia.

St Josaphat was known as a very traditionalist ECer and he opposed vehemently the plan to introduce the Carmelite Order into the EC church (this is discussed in the book on him in Ukrainian that I have). He opposed every single Latinization as well.

In addition, Bl Basil Velychkovsky C.Ss.R., as we see from his memoirs published in Winnipeg by the Ukr. Redemptorists, continued this tradition and in his work among the Orthodox in Volyn, Bl. Basil kept ALL the Orthodox saints, including the most local ones, in the Greek-Catholic calendar.

In his memoirs, he also chided those Greek Catholics who "made fun" of Orthodox saints and commented positively on the "holiness of their lives" etc.

Bl. Basil made a study of the Orthodox traditions of Volyn and kept all of them in the Greek-Catholic Church there as well.

Alex

Sorry for the double post above!

Also, I was once told by a Roman Catholic priest working the Middle East and who was very familiar with the EC's there that "we Catholics are entitled to venerate Sts. Mark of Ephesus and Photios privately." He had the icon of the "Pillars of Orthodoxy."

What is the Catholic Church coming to . . .

Again, Rome's age-old policy on this is that when an Eastern Church comes into communion with it, the saints that Church has always venerated and canonized itself remain with it as part of its patrimony.

Sts. Vladimir and Olha were canonized by the Orthodox Church and not by the Catholic Church - and they are in the Roman calendar.

Metropolitan Andrew Sheptytsky petitioned Rome to allow the newly formed Russian Catholic Orthodox Church (sic) to venerate all the saints of the Russian Orthodox Church - this petition was granted.

Other EC parishes today will often introduce newly-glorified saints into their own liturgical veneration. There is a Ukrainian Catholic Church in Welland that has icons on its walls of many Orthodox Saints, including St Paisius Velychkovsky, the teacher of the Jesus Prayer, St John Maximovych of Siberia and many others.

St Seraphim of Sarov is also now on the Roman Catholic calendar and he was glorified a saint by Orthodoxy in 1903. Pope John Paul II had a great devotion to St Seraphim - also given that St Seraphim had a great devotion to the Mother of God that personally touched the heart of Pope John Paul II.

Fr Archimandrite Sergius Keleher was the first to inform me about the practice of Roman Catholic hierarchs attending Orthodox canonizations of Saints.

They attended the canonization of St Herman of Alaska, venerated his icon and took blessed icons of St Herman with them.

As Father Archimandrite said to me at the time, quite correctly, "If they don't recognize the canonization of Orthodox saints, why did they attend, why did they kiss the saint's icon and why did they accept icons of the saint to take with them?"

There is also the phenomenon of EC's and Orthodox venerating the same saint, but giving slightly different interpretations to their lives - each trying to make the saint "Orthodox" i.e. "against Catholicism" and the reverse.

St Vladimir's Orthodox akathist contains a pointed barb at the Catholics when it affirms that he disdained the "Western heresy" and received Orthodoxy.

Both EC's and Orthodox venerated St Job of Pochaiv but the akathist to St Job of Pochaiv has a number of barbs at the "uniates" whom it refers to as "New Hagarenes" (ie. "New Turks").

The Basilian Order actually promoted the official Cause of St Job of Pochaiv at Rome! The book by Met. Ilarion Ohienko on the Holy Pochaiv Lavra has a photocopy of a letter from a Basilian Ihumen speaking positively about the Cause of St Job. In fact, during the coronation of the Pochaiv Icon of the Mother of God (by the initiative of the great benefactor, Myron Pototsky, a friend of my ancestor, Auguste Jablonowskie ) medals of the Icon were struck for people to wear around their necks - on the back of the medal was an icon of St Job portrayed as he was on Orthodox icons.

St Job of Pochaiv was glorified a saint in 1654 by the Orthodox Metropolitan of Kyiv, Dionysius (Balaban), an ancestor of my dear wife's . . . fyi . . .

At first, the Basilians who took over the Lavra closed his shrine, but then they opened it when the people kept coming to pray at it.

The Basilians, to this day, often publish a picture in their books and magazines (including the little booklet, "Two Molebens and a Rosary") of a black-robed monk praying at an altar with the icon of the Mother of God, holding "chotki."

The picture has no inscription - but it is a picture of none other than St Job of Pochaiv, as we see in Orthodox publications and also the book by Met. Ilarion Ohienko!

Alex

To the best of my knowledge, Rome has never actually "de-canonized" anyone, although from time to time she has pruned her own liturgical calendar (the last time this happened it cause quite a little comment!).

St. Photius of Constantinople died in full communion with Rome, so he does not present much of a problem.

This does not indicate, however, that we are required to use some of the wilder flights of fancy which can be found in Eastern Orthodox texts meant for use on the feasts of the various saints. Such polemics have no place in the divine services. A worship service is not a meeting of a debating society.

Fr. Serge

silly me, how could I forget Elizabeth the New Martyr!