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I need direction, please. I have so many questions as a Latin Rite Catholic. To whom may I direct my questions? Thank you.

Ellie,

Are you in touch with an Eastern Catholic congregation in your area?

In ICXC,

Gordo

Dear Ellie,

Christ is risen! (You respond): Indeed he is risen!

That's your first lesson in the Byzantine Rite; we never tire of proclaiming the resurrection of Christ to one another during the Forty Days of Pascha ("Easter" Sunday to Ascension Thursday).

Welcome to the Byzantine Forum, Ellie! I hope you post often!

Gabriel

Ellie, indeed, welcome!

You may also want to see the excellent web site of Anthony Dragani, http://www.east2west.org , You can learn a lot there!

Welcome!

It is best to be experiencing it and to ask questions as they arise (which might be frequently!). It is much harder in the long run to learn the book knowledge first, then try to apply it all at once. It is easier to be doing both gradually together. A little more humbling in the beginning, but not nearly as hard as trying to merge the two in the end.

Christ is Risen!

Since your already catholic its not so much about books it is one primarily about living the liturgical life of an eastern rite catholic, one has to prefer the eastern liturgy and its spirituality a book will touch on the issues but attending a church will be far more valuable. I looked into the eastern rites but in the end I was honest with myself and ended up concluding I think like a latin rite catholic in my theology aka Aquinas and Augustine and seek to improve the latin rites weaknesses due to abuses of Vatican II by sticking it out and not by running to another rite. But I do respect the eastern catholic churchs a lot and think they serve a great function in eastern christiantiy and particualr catholic christianity to be truly universal and hopefully a stepping stone for Orthodox reconcilliation although that point is controversial and disputed.

Dear Tobit,

We Easterners think that Aquinas and Augustine are also "weaknesses" of the Latin Church .

And the liturgical life reflects a Particular Eastern Catholic perspective on theology and ecclesiology which is markedly different from the Western Church.

So I congratulate you on articulating such a wide perspective on the Eastern "Rites."

Unfortunately, you are wrong on almost every point . . .

Alex

Christ is Risen!

Alex,

Why so harsh? The distinction between "rite" and "Church" can be a confusing one, especially for Latin Catholics. I think tobit's comments regarding the eastern Churches are flattering and, for the most part, accurate.

Finally, St. Augustine and St. Thomas Aquinas are pillars of Latin Catholicism whose theological works can be appreciated by Catholics of any particular Church. Augustine's Confessions, especially, epitomize man's innate and universal desire for communion with God.

God bless,

Chris, Byzantine Catholic

Anyway in Tobit's circumstance I don't see why "rite" is the wrong word to use. The Eastern Catholic Churches use many rites.

Alexis

Dear Chris,

Well, I hope I wasn't harsh and if I came across that way, I apologise!

The use of "rite" is not correct in that context since what is being talked about is the entire experience of ecclesial Particularity of the EC Churches.

As for Alexis' comment, in fact, it would be closer to the mark to say that there are many Eastern Catholic Churches that use the same (Byzantine) Rite and not the other way around.

There are certain aspects of Aquinas and Augustine that can be, and are, appreciated by Eastern Catholics and Orthodox. But taken comprehensively, their perspectives are foreign to that of the Christian East which is also why the East refers to Augustine as "Blessed Augustine."

That does not prevent the East from having liturgical devotion to St Augustine (and also, in the case of individual EC's and even Eastern Orthodox) private devotion to Aquinas), but neither would seriously be considered as having anything to say to the Christian East.

I'm also reacting, rightly or wrongly, to a perceived tendency one sometimes comes across when Latin Catholics (as we have them in my parish) become EC's because they don't like their "Latin Rite" (i.e. Novus Ordo) and attend an EC parish because they like "that Rite." They often become "EC" but only in matters of "rite" only - spiritually and in every other which way, they have not left their Latin home which is where they truly belong since they only wish to experience the EC Church in terms of its "liturgical rite" alone.

My view, anyway.

Alex

Might consider reaching out to them with something other than a hammer.....

Just a passing thought.

Mary

Alex said: "As for Alexis' comment, in fact, it would be closer to the mark to say that there are many Eastern Catholic Churches that use the same (Byzantine) Rite and not the other way around."

Ok, yeah, but Alex the Byzantine Rite is not the only Rite employed by Eastern Catholic Churches. Numerous Eastern Catholic Churches use rites other than the Byzantine. That's what I was getting at.

So, I think we are both right, because we're saying different things. YES, there are many ECCs that use the Byzantine Rite. There are also many rites employed in the ECCs. "Eastern Catholic Churches" is not the exclusive property of Byzantine liturgical patrimony, not by a looong shot. That's what I'm saying.

Alexis

Hi Ellie

I got this below from http://www.byzantines.net I hope this can help you.


I'd like to become a Byzantine Catholic. I'm currently a Roman Catholic. How do I do it?

To attend a Byzantine Catholic Church on a regular basis, you don't have to do anything special if you are already a Catholic. Simply go.

Some people find that they are spiritually fulfilled at a Byzantine Church, and in order to bring closure to their spiritual journey, they would like to be officially recognized as a Byzantine Catholic. This process is known as changing rites.

Basically, the process goes like this: After discussing this with your priest, you write a letter to your Roman Catholic Bishop and the Byzantine Catholic Bishop. In the letter you state spiritual reasons why you want to change rites. At that point they will begin to process the paperwork and will get back to you.

Note that you are not converting. You are simply changing rites

Dear Alexis,

O.K.

When I went to Latin Catholic High School, it was always assumed by my LC mentors that there was one "Eastern Rite" and that I belonged to it.

They doubtless understood "Eastern" as "Byzantine" but, for them, the idea of a sui iuris Church was really beyond the pale so "Rite I was!"

In the West, it is the case that a single Rite is embodied in a single Church - but not in the East. That is what I'm saying.

You are right though and the only case in the East where rite and church point to the same reality is the Armenian Church (Maronites too?).

Alex

Dear Tobit,

I apologise to you and it is not my intention to wish to insult Latins.

One purpose of this forum is to articulate where Latinization in our EC mentality exists and how to get rid of it. That is not insulting, that is simply what we are about after hundreds of years of being second-class citizens as Eastern Catholics.

What I said about RC's in my parish is true, I've spoken to some about this and they agree that that is where they are "at."

I don't see where I have used a sledge hammer and don't see how bringing that matter up constitutes an offense. Being true to oneself is what Church identity is all about. I've had my many Latinizations pointed out here and elsewhere - sometimes it shocked me. But ultimately, we are all called to be true to ourselves. If I want to be a Latin Catholic, then that is what I should be. If I wish to be Eastern Catholic, then I should be EC and that "all the way." The fact that there are RC's who have one foot in the Latin Church and the other (liturgical) foot in the EC Church - it's a free country but ultimately consistency between liturgical tradition and ecclesial identity is the name of the game.

(I'm EC and not Orthodox, by the way, so hopefully as a bad representative of the EC Church I'm doing less damage than as a representative of the Orthodox Churches which are numerically larger.)

If you are willing, I am prepared to enter into a debate with yourself and others here on how and where I was offensive etc. I am willing to be enlightened and to repent of my ways. Perhaps I need to adopt a less offensive writing style.

It could also be that to say anything even mildly critical of Augustine or Aquinas (ie. their irrelevance to Eastern theology) is to already be seen to be offensive.

In that case, the perception of offense is one that is the problem of Latin Catholics who see Latin theology as the ultimate standard for everyone.

Whatever it is, it was not my intention to personally offend anyone, I will enter into a discussion with anyone willing to discuss how I could be perceived as offensive.

It is always sad when others perceive you as being unChristian, not having anything to contribute here etc. Ultimately, you haven't told me what I haven't heard from my brothers and sisters here on this forum at one time or another. The Administrator has also shared his dismay with me on a number of occasions and I've learned that he really DOES want my spiritual good!

To what extent that perception is "objective" and to what extent it is simply a form of negativity brought on by the feeling of being offended (coupled with the need to lash out) is something I don't know.

It is always wrong to accept wholesale the estimation of others without defending oneself.

If I can be shown to have truly offended in one way or another, I will not only apologise, but strive to work on it.

Otherwise, "Why do you strike me?"

Alex