www.byzcath.org Forums Mysteries: The Life of Worship Vespers, Matins & the Divine Liturgy The Revised Divine Liturgy How many have left?

Serge:

How can you call yourelf a Catholic and yet maintain that: "one is justified in leaving the Catholic Church and joining the Eastern Orthodox Church if, and only if, one is honestly convinced that this is the Will of God. In that event, Godspeed."

No one is ever justified in leaving the Catholic Church. Schismatics can not be saved.

Pope Eugene IV, Bull Cantate Domino (1441): "The most Holy Roman Church firmly believes, professes and preaches that none of those existing outside the Catholic Church, not only pagans, but also Jews and heretics and schismatics, can have a share in life eternal; but that they will go into the eternal fire which was prepared for the devil and his angels, ... and that so important is the unity of this ecclesiastical body that only those remaining within this unity can profit by the sacraments of the Church unto salvation... No one...can be saved, unless he remain within the bosom and the unity of the Catholic Church."

I don't mean to be rude, but I must point out that you are encouraging souls to embrace error and damnation!

Dstan,

The man you refer to as Serge is Father Archimandrite Serge (Keleher), a priest of the Ukrainian Catholic Church in Ireland.

Whoa!, whoa! , right there newbie dstan51. Might I suggest that you lay off the caffeine, take a deep breath, and consider apologizing to Archmandrite Serge Keleher, a world reknown and highly respected Ukrainian CATHOLIC priest, who you saw fit to reprimand. May I ask what diocese you are bishop of that you so easily reprimand a priest? Oh, and while you're at it, you also might want to consider apologizing to all of the Orthodox Christians on this forum that you felt so comfortable in labeling heretics and schismatics.

Gotta love some of these more Catholic than the Pope types!

Alexandr the heretic and schismatic

Perhaps we should organize a collection and have a medal struck with the inscription "Extra Ecclesiam Nulla Salus" on one side and a portrait of Boniface VIII, holding his bull Unam Sanctam on the other.

Fr. Serge

I do not know the details of the problems with the revised Divine Liturgy in the Byzantine Ruthenian Church.

I do not know what the purported reason is/was for a new translation.
If it is to have "inclusive language", then this is indeed a terrible thing.

We in the Latin Church have had to live with a lousy translation of the Novus Ordo Mass (I refuse to say "and also with you" because almost anyone with a third grade education can figure out what "et cum spiritu tuo is). My sympathies and prayers are with you.

"The Heretic and Schismatic" Alexandr ONCE AGAIN has defended the Catholic Church and her priests. And I want to publicly thank him for it.

That's 2 I owe him. I wish I would have been part of the other topic that closed before I read it to defend Orthodoxy.

Dr. Eric

The funny thing is that a friend pointed something out to me the other day that really hits me and got me thinking of something that I've not thought of before...

It was the POPE of Rome in the past who said that those who are outside of his communion wouldn't be "saved".

Interesting point!

(The point being that it was a Papal self-imposing on who is saved and who is not based on being in communion with the Pope)

Sad.

To me, being in communion is to be inside of TRUE APOSTOLIC CHURCH that Christ established. Catholic & Orthodox being an Apostolic Church. Not based on the Pope only and all alone.

SPDundas
Deaf Byzantine

Shane,

That was not the point the pope was making either. In fact, no pope has ever taken that position.

Gordo

Christ is Risen!

As much as any group would like to be defended here on the forum, and that would go for any represented here, I am going to echo the words of the admin a few posts up. We are off topic here and posts should be only on the topic of the thread. Any other comments other than the topic subject should be made on a new thread in the appropriate forum or this thread will have to be closed.

In IC XC,
Father Anthony+
Administrator

You are right, Father.

So here is my contribution:

I left the Metropolia for another Eastern Catholic jurisdiction. I wish everyone who stays well and I am grateful for the time I spent there. I am especially grateful for the shepherding of my pastors, and Bishop John of Parma, whom I greatly respect.

God bless!

There's a book for children - what else would you expect from a school librarian - that describes whether or not I have left because of the RDL. It's titled, "I'm Still Here in the Bathtub." I'm not going anywhere.

So, I will ask the question again:

How many people have left?

I have heard from third party information (which may or may not be correct) that on a typical Sunday only about 60-80 people show up for Liturgy at the Cathedral of St. John the Baptist.

I happen to be a very visual learner, Father, and that is some picture I'd say! Holding his bull...eh? Must be an Irish euphemism!!

Mary

"I have heard from third party information (which may or may not be correct) that on a typical Sunday only about 60-80 people show up for Liturgy at the Cathedral of St. John the Baptist."

Ray,
This may sound like a major exodus of people to some, but in reality we have to ask ourselves in just how many parishes is 60-80 on a Sunday the norm? There are a few exceptions of course, and no parish can afford to lose even one, but the statement "only about 60-80' may not reflect much of a change from what the parishes had pre-liturgical changes.
Just an observation from up north in old country...