www.byzcath.org Forums News & Events Church News Orthodox Church of Greece to Allow Deaconesses

If the allowance of monastic 'deaconesses' who are to serve the community (as nuns of the West have for centuries) is the "downfall of Orthodoxy", then what is one to say for female Eucharistic ministers in the Roman Catholic Church?

No offense meant to anyone, but if we are to get nit picky, I would prefer to have a NUN annoint me with holy oil (note: in the Greek Orthodox church, even lay people annoint their loved ones with holy oil) than a lay woman administer the Holy Eucharist to me.

This 'title' of deaconesses as described by the Church of Greece has NOTHING to do with feminism. I don't think that a Greek Orthodox nun would know what feminism is...such is their humility, old world and traditional sensibilities, and subservience to the order of the Church.

Feminism, as we know it in the U.S., in its ugly form, is unknown in Greece. To my knowledge, no lay woman has ever muttered a word about the female priesthood, no newspaper has ever printed such an article of dissent, nor has any ecclesial community ever desired or even cried for the role of 'deaconesses'.

Please, brethren, understand that we are talking about a different culture... For the VERY conservative Greek Church synod to *allow* this, is not *allowing* in U.S. terms of understanding, aka: a concession or capitulation to the cry of feminists....it is answering a need of the 'community', where there are hardly enough nurses, for instance, to tend to the sick in hospital in Athens, or enough deacons to tend to the liturgy in very remote and dwindling female monastic communities.

With all due respect to the person and position of our beloved Fr. Stephanos, I do think that his fear, and extreme predictions, in THIS instance, are unmerited.

I will be the first to cry 'the sky is falling' if this happened here in the Orthodox Church in the U.S. for a whole other set of reasons (which have NOTHING to do with the traditional cultural attitudes of the Mediterranean mindset in Greece)...namely--the agendas of U.S. feminism and liberalism which permeate *every* faith tradition.

In Christ,
Alice

Dear Paul:

If you want THAT position, some sort of an ecumenical hatchet man for the Pope at the MP, Cardinal Sodano might not be of help notwithstanding Alex's "buddy-buddy" relationship with His Eminence.

The State Secretariat of the Vatican appoints/assigns Apostolic Nuncios (in this case to the Russian Federation) as the Holy See's representatives to secular States. It does not have direct contact with religious institutions or groups like the Russian Orthodox Church-MP.

This is under the purview of the PCPCU under our "friendly holy ghost" Cardinal Kasper.

Amado

Dear All,

Please read my post above before everyone thinks the Orthodox Church of Greece has gone mad, and read the following *carefully*....

The synod decided that bishops could decide at their own discretion to ordain certain high-ranking nuns if no priest was available, for example in isolated monasteries. It was stressed that the role of deaconesses should be social, for example the granting of last rites to the sick. According to the Archbishop of Peristeri, deaconesses should "play a role in society and not in the monastery".

Thanks, Alice

(You didn't think that I would stay out of THIS thread, did you! HEHEHEHE! :p )

A short list of Deaconess who became saints:

St. Phoebe the Deaconess at Cenchreae near Corinth. - Pray for us!
St. Phoebe [oca.org]

Martyr Susanna the deaconess of Palestine - Pray for us!

Blessed Theosebia the deaconess, sister of St. Basil the Great and St. Gregory of Nyssa. - Pray for us!

Holy Women Olympias (Olympiada) the deaconess of Constantinople, and Virgin Eupraxia of Tabenna. - Pray for us!
Holy Women Olympias [oca.org]

Dear Alice ,

I'm glad you quoted that paragraph ! The only thing that I was querying was the bit about granting of the Last Rites by a nun - deaconess or not. At this point I was thinking I have to admit, of what we in the RC Church regard as the Last Rites - Confession and then the Viaticum - and no nun whether ordained Deaconess or not can hear Confessions and grant absolution.

The rest of the article pertains only to the GOC and I really should keep my nose out of their discussions [ OK I didn't about 1 bit - sorry ]

Anhelyna

Alice,

thanks for the clarification regarding "social" as a poor translation. I hardly share Stephanos' conclusion that this is the beginning of the end or the downfall of Orthodoxy. Everyone knows (or should know) that there are apocalyptic and eschatological implications with the Red Sox's win of the World Series.

Alice,

I do not read Greek, but what is in the original Greek article for the term "Last Rites"? Those of us in the Catholic Churches would understand this as the Holy Mystery of Anointing of the Sick, which only those in the priesthood may administer. Technically, speaking the "last rite" could also mean viaticum or the reception of the Holy Eucharist as the spiritual food for the last journey to the very presence of God.

Dearest Anhelyna,

No need to be sorry!

You are correct, 'last rites' are different in our churches. Last rites, in this article, would mean the annointing of the sick...which, ideally, is to be done by a priest...but I suppose, that in extraordinary circumstances, a deaconess may read the prayers and do the annointing.

Fondly,
Alice

Dear Anhelyna,

Actually, the "social" thingy the Archbishop raises for Deaconesses has to do with their older, essential role in helping with the baptism of women.

The Church baptizes by immersion and when adults are involved, the Deaconess had a crucial role to play.

The Archbishop quite brilliantly identified a similar role for deaconesses in helping with preparing women during the Mystery of Anointing.

Of course, the East knows of no "last rites" since the Mystery of Anointing is a prayer for healing in the first instance.

And one does not need to wait until one is at death's door to receive it.

In fact, Orthodox Christians, and also EC's receive this Mystery, as I understand it, four times during the year (especially on Holy Wednesday of Holy Week) as a matter of course.

The Anointing is done by, ideally, seven priests, although three or two would be fine (practically, by one).

The Anointing is done with seven wands wrapped in cotton and a person is anointed as at baptism, front and back of hands, chest and back etc.

A deaconess could therefore be of immeasureable assistance in this Mystery.

And perhaps with the presence of deaconesses, this just might be something that would kick-start more adult baptisms and bringing willing and informed adults into the Church.

Isn't that what the Ektenia of the Catechumens is there for? To remind us of our duty, in the first instance, to bring in converts?

Bring on the Deaconesses, I say!

Perhaps priests' wives could assume this role in time.

Alex

Dear Father Stephanos,

Do keep in mind that the Holy Synod of the Church of Greece is not a group of uneducated or irresponsible Hierarchs that do things on a whim.


CANON XV of the XXX Canons of the Council of Chalcedon (451).
"A WOMAN shall not receive the laying on of hands as a deaconess under forty years of age, and then only after searching examination. And if, after she has had hands laid on her and has continued for a time to minister, she shall despise the grace of God and give herself in marriage, she shall be anathematized and the man united to her."


Dear Alex,

It seems to me that most Deaconesses in the early Church had been monastic types. I�m not sure, if I have the time it would be very interesting to research.

St. Olympia was �ordained� deaconess of Hagia Sophia by Nektarios, the Patriarch of Constantinople . St. Olympia helped out St. John Chrysostom and it might be a good clarification to mention that she was "set apart" as deaconess.


In Christ,

Matthew Panchisin

The Byzantine permission permits a deaconess to baptize women catechumens, and to annoint women in need of the Euchailion - a deacon, however, may not do either of these. In turn, that tells us the reason for permitting a deaconess these functions: for the sake of modesty.

The order of ordination of a deaconess is available in the original Greek and in English translations.

The Coptic Orthodox Church also has deaconesses.

Incognitus

The Byzantine permission permits a deaconess to baptize women catechumens, and to annoint women in need of the Euchailion - a deacon, however, may not do either of these. In turn, that tells us the reason for permitting a deaconess these functions: for the sake of modesty.

The order of ordination of a deaconess is available in the original Greek and in English translations.

The Coptic Orthodox Church also has deaconesses.

Incognitus

incognitus,

I've noticed of late that a number of your posts are duplicated. I doubt this is for the sake of emphasis. Anything we can do to help?

Do you have a reference for the permission given to anoint with the Euchailion (Holy Unction)? I was aware that deaconesses did "sick calls" by bringing the Eucharist to infirm women, but I never heard that they could administer Holy Unction.

Dave

Alice,

Do you know if there is a Greek article online (or perhaps something from the Church of Greece directly) that might be more specific in using liturgical terms than an English article?

If you find anything, please let us know!

Dave

Dave,

if click on the "home" link that should take you to the artciles homepage which is in Greek. you might try clicking on the icon of the Greek flag as well.

there was nothing as of yet on the Church of Greece's web page Ecclesia [ecclesia.gr]