www.byzcath.org Forums Faith & Christian Life The Christian East & West How Many Ecumenical Councils?

Trent has said nothing that you will not also find in the new Catechism of the Catholic Church. He has offered the teaching of his Church. And since it is no more than what the rest of the Catholics have said in this thread, I have to wonder why you select Trent to chastise and challenge as a provocateur. It seems to me that your comments are the ones most likely to provoke. Any reason for that?

Mary

Dear Mary,
Christ is Risen! Xpuctoc Bockpec!
I was also angered by Trent's comments as an Eastern Orthodox Christian. However, I am not as well spoken or as irenical as Alexandr so I did not comment last night. Again, I will state that the purpose of this forum is for Eastern Catholic/Catholic and Eastern Orthodox dialogue. Many different interpretations have been offered on this topic over a number of pages as you can see. What Trent has done has closed the door to any possible discussion or hope for dialogue on this question.
Orest

It is unfortunate that you are angry, because what Trent presents is the teaching of the Catholic Church. At very least, your anger, in that regard, is misplaced. We try very hard not to shoot the messenger, don't we?

Mary

Why are you getting offended when I post the teachings of the Catholic Church? If I recall correctly, this is an Eastern Catholic forum, and all Catholics, whether they be from the East or the West, are required to profess all the doctrine of the Church, not just the parts of the doctrine of the Church they happen to like.

Trent & Alexander... STOP AREADY!!!

Remember dear bretheren... sins and mercies exist on both sides of the fence... we all know the history...

Catholic warriors MURDERED and PLUNDERED Orthodox Christians when they DESTROYED THEIR CITY in 1204!! Peter the Great, had Greek Catholic Churches BURNED TO THE GROUND so the "UNIATES" would not "HAVE ANY RELICS OF SAINTS TO VENERATE."

Catholics AND Orthodox STOOD UNITED at the side of Byzantium's last Emperor, St. Constantine XI Drageses and DIED ALONG WITH THEIR ORTHODOX BRETHEREN at the walls of Constantinople defending it from ISLAM on May 29th, 1453.

I think the last Byzantine Emperor understood the importance of unity in faith--we should use him as an example!

You call yourselves christians and have such arrogance in your hearts--where's your humility toward each other? Henrico Dandalo had this arrogance, that's why he attacked and decimated Constantinople. He got his in the end though, the Orthodox fed his bones to the dogs (who wouldn't eat them by the way) when the Greeks regained their beloved city--only to lose it to a GREATER ENEMY!

Here's my take: I think christians, East and West need to develop a thicker skin. Our ancestors suffered greatly at each other's hands. Remember: Jesus, OUR REDEEMER, was SCOURGED WITHOUT A WORD, and yet WE STILL cannot bear the slightest discomfort. Christians bot East and West need to read the 22nd Homily of Isaiah the Abbot... Google it if you will, but we all need to keep our mouths in check and learn something about humility, brotherly correction and love.

I think St. Constantine XI Drageses, would agree...

Mark.

I tried to Google it--couldn't find it. In short, here's our the Good Abbot had to say...

"Examine yourself, poor man, who has been baptized in Christ and in His death. See what is in the death that He died, to know you walk in His footsteps. For He is sinless and presents Himself as a model in all the paths He has taken.

For He was poor, but you cannot stand poverty -
He had no place to rest His head, but you cannot bear being a stranger -
He bore his injuries, but you cannot bear even the slightest pain -
He never returned evil for evil, but you cannot wait to return evil -
He never complained when He suffered, but you complain when you are made to suffer -
He even remained quiet when someone injured Him, but you are agitated even if no one injures you -
He made Himself humble and consoled those who sinned against Him, but you strike back with your tongue even those who love you -
He bore annoyances with joy, and you are disturbed with the slightest discomfort -
He is mild with those who fell into sin, but you are proud even with those greater than yourself -
He gave Himself up to redeem those who sinned against Him, but you are not able to give yourself even for those who love you.

Isaiah the Abbot, 22nd Homily

This is one of those threads to which there is no solution.

Nevertheless, here is a crude graph I created that gives the spectrum of viewpoints:


Twenty-one Ecumenical Councils
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Romans
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Latinized Eastern Catholics
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Indifferent Eastern Catholics
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De-Latinized Eastern Catholics
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Orthodox
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Seven Ecumenical Councils

Decidedly unhelpful and offensive.

Gordo

And unlike Trent's comments which are actually the teaching of the Catholic Church, these off the cuff comments are clearly designed to be...as you say.

Mary

Dear Mark,

Thank you for these words of wisdom. History shows that no one 'side' is purely victim. To bear old wounds is insanity and poison for the Christian soul.

We need purification of our memories and our hearts, for our hearts and our mind are intrinsically connected.

I think that this thread has run its course, and will now be closed.

In Christ,
Alice, Moderator