www.byzcath.org Forums News & Events Church News Orthodox Church of Greece to Allow Deaconesses

"It seems to me - and I could easily be wrong about this, since the only deacons here are Latin Rite - that the functions of deacons in the Western and Eastern rites are quite different. That being the case, there will be misunderstandings. The Latin deacons bless, baptize, read the gospel, preach, and perform marriages. It seems that Eastern deacons serve at the altar and don't do any of those Latin functions. If the understanding of the role of deacons is so different between the rites, I am sure the role of deaconesses will not be understood and will be looked upon with great suspicion."

Fr. Deacons John, Stan, and myself are Byzantine and Fr. Deacon Ed is biritual Latin/Melkite.

Byzantine Deacons do proclaim the Gospel and give homilies. They do not bless, so they may not bless a marriage. They could baptize if necessary, such as in a mission where the priest would not be coming for a prolonged period.

The problem is Latin Catholic apologists are in denial of or are ignorant of the nature and role deaconesses in the Byzantine Church.

Fr. Deacon Lance

"The problem is Latin Catholic apologists are in denial of or are ignorant of the nature and role deaconesses in the Byzantine Church.

Fr. Deacon Lance"

I suspect you are right about that. Unfortunately, many Latins are ignorant of the Byzantine Church, period. Compounding the problem is my own observation that Latins tend to think of their deacons as a "light" form of priests who can perform many priestly functions. The priest shortage has caused congregations to increasingly rely on the deacons as substitutes in priest-like roles.

I will temper some of my posts with this one reflection. My ONLY hesitation about all of this is, not that there is no historical precedent for the ordination of women deacons, it's there, it can't be denied. It is the purpose of it. The Church of Greece seemed to be, in fact, not reacting to feminism or to the need of certain women to be validated by their role in leadership, but rather to fulfill a need. If there are remote monasteries that need the services that a "deaconess" could provide, where priests do not reside, then it seems to me that this is a legitimate and holy thing. If it is only a reaction to pamper feminists, it will surely fail and will harm the church in the process. I highly doubt that it is the latter, given the nature of the Church of Greece.

I think the prayers for the ordination of a woman deacon are very revealing, and if we truly believe in "lex credendi, lex orandi" then these words should be pause for sobriety about the subject:

"Holy and All-powerful God, through the birth in flesh of your Only-begotten Son and our God from a Virgin you sanctified woman, and granted not only to men but also to women the grace and visitation of the Holy Spirit. Now, Master, look upon this servant of yours also, call her to the work of your service and send down upon her the rich gift of your Holy Spirit. Guard her in your Orthodox faith in a blameless way of life in accordance with what is well pleasing to you, as she fulfils her ministry at every moment."

The second prayer affirms that women do indeed have a ministry, even if it is only to the women in the church, for the sake of propriety, blessed by God. I take extreme comfort in the fact that Orthodoxy seems to, again and again, in its inner life, exalt the role of women, especially in the example of the Mother of God. Being Orthodox all my life, I have NEVER encountered any type of denigration of women, perceived or otherwise, in the Church. St. Paul makes it clear that "there is neither Jew nor Greek, male nor female, but all are one in Christ Jesus." These are extremely powerful and wonderful and liberating words. These are hardly words of feminism. Jesus did not come to "empower women" as the Episcopal Church seems to preach. Jesus came to free all people, men and women, Jews and Greeks, from the power of sin and death.

All of these are radical ideas, not beginning with the 21st century, but beginning with our Lord and His Apostles. Even a cursory reading of the Book of Acts clearly shows, right at the center of the story, that the Jews struggled with the idea that Christ died for all people, Jews and Greeks. The belief that only the Jews were the chosen people of God was completely eradicated in Christ. All are one in Christ Jesus, and this includes women.

If this sounds like feminism, then you are misreading my words. The ancient Christian faith, I am convinced, rejects feminism. What it does do, is exalts humans to be one with God. Every one has their place in the Church, men, women, the aged, the young, we are all one in Christ. That's why we all drink of the same cup, from the oldest man in the parish, to the youngest girl, from her 40th day as a human.

To be sure, Christ is the God-Man, and lives as a resurrected human man, that is in male-ness, not as a female. And so, the office of the priesthood is reserved for males only. This is the involate teaching of the Faith. But women do serve, and can be blessed to serve, in a special way, as servants, especially to other women. This promotes purity within the Body.

These are indeed "radical" ideas, ones that Christ died on a cross to give to us and rose from the dead so that we might embrace one another as true brothers and sisters in all charity and purity. If we take the scriptures as a whole, we can surely come to no other conclusion.

Just my two cents.

Priest Thomas

Bless, Father Thomas,

I share your great feeling about Orthodoxy and her traditions as well!

I don't know what our Latin friends are going on about here.

But then again, I've never gotten on with them all that much.

Have you?

Alex

WOOO! Talk about slippery politicians! When are you running for Prime Minister?

Dear Charles,

Prime Minister?

I can't even become a Moderator on the Byzantine Forum!

Not that I need to be, mind you, with my instability and hyper-sensitivity and all that . . .

sniff . . .

Alex

As a Latin Catholic of a certain kind, I must admit to ignorance of my Eastern brethern, even though I have found a thin thread within the family tree.

It would be wise and in the best interest of both the Byzantine & Roman rites to consult each other regarding this important issue, or they will experience a Castro type of step.

And Alex, you would be one heck of a politician south of that border.

james

Dear Jakub,

Why, thank you, Brother!

Who needs the Forum?

Alex

Oh Alex, you always know the right thing to say! However, I know that your heart is big enough to embrace all of it. I, on the other hand, poor sinful wretch that I am, am blinded by the beauty of the Orthodox faith. I stand in awe at each liturgy, each time I read the scriptures and each time I witness the beautiful testimony that our faith has to the Kingdom of God. I know in my heart of hearts that it is singularly special in many ways.

God bless you for your unbiased ways.

Priest Thomas

Bless, Father Thomas,

Well, I don't always say the right thing.

It sounds as if you haven't communicated with the Administrator of Fr. Deacon John Montalvo for a while . . .

Kissing your right hand, I again implore your holy blessing, Reverend Father,

Alex

My views are my own, and may or may not be representative of the Orthodox Church in America, the Byzantine Catholic Church in America, this board, it's Adminstrator, or the topic moderator.

My name is Fr. Tom Soroka, and I approve this message.

Oh wait, the election's over....

Dear Father Thomas,

From what I can tell it seems that in the west Pope Gelasius had some of the strongest language regarding "ordaining" woman. He writes of this "evil" in which he seems to be referring to participation in a liturgical way or as being members of the clergy. He writes; "seems to threaten not only their the bishops own downfall, but also the tragic downfall of the whole church, if they do not come to their senses."

As we know in the Orthodox Church the role of a Deaconesses is limited and they are not nor have they ever been moving towards the Priesthood. However males or Deacons often become Priest's, it is sort of a stepping stone so to speak, this has always been the tradition. For the Latin's during the Vatican Council 2 the permanent diaconate was restored. They allowed married men to be Deacons however the stepping stone to the Priesthood is no longer a stepping stone because the Latin's do not allow a married Priesthood although some say there are many exceptions. This is interesting because a significant part the original intended purpose of the diaconate has been adjusted which effects the flow of potential Priest's. As such we can predictably conclude that denying or restricting the God given sacrament of marriage as well as the gift of participation in pro-creation has resulted in many issues with the Latin's that could be reduced, namely by accepting the Churches traditional and appropriate understandings regarding the service of women. The acceptance of the service of woman has been mentioned from the very beginning so why should it be denied as we approach the end. I'm not surprised by the results and different conclusions from these understandings as we can clearly see in Holy Writ.

Genesis 2:18

And the LORD God said, "It is not good that man should be alone; I will make him a helper comparable to him."

Genesis 1:27-28

So God created man in His own image; in the image of God He created him; male and female He created them. Then God blessed them, and God said to them, "Be fruitful and multiply; fill the earth and subdue it; have dominion over the fish of the sea, over the birds of the air, and over every living thing that moves on the earth."

How things are interpreted and why they are interpreted differently as they are in the east compared to the west seems to be a matter of interpretation as well.

In Christ,

Matthew Panchisin

Why Alex, you would make a most excellent Moderator. I have only found you to be hypersensitive on one issue - that political entity somewhere near Russia. Was it Kiev? Other than that, you would make a fine Moderator.

Dear Charles,

Actually, I've several ethnic backgrounds which is why we could never tell an ethnic joke in my family . . .

We never knew which relative we would offend . . .

Alex

ROFL We have several ethnicities in my family, too, but none of us are very sensitive about it. We tend to laugh about it, not take offense.