www.byzcath.org Forums General Discussions Town Hall the british are coming! the british are coming!

One is reminded of a scene from "Fiddler on the Roof".

Rabbi: A blessing for the tsar? ...
May God bless and keep the tsar... far away from us!"

Nothing was humane, Ryan, but all I was saying is that we shouldn't be misled to believe that somehow the morale superiority of those in Canada was the reason for the abolition of slavery there thirty or so years before here in the States.

Climate, economics, and other factors played a major role.

I'll let Zenovia speak for herself.

Alexis

so, we are discussing Her Majesty's visit are we? I for one like the Queen, and her Greek sailor (Zenovia, did you get that one from an episode of "Waiting for God"? (I like Diana, but sometimes she is as daft as a brush).
yes, Canada is chock full of Tories, whose ancestors my Knickerbocker ancestors in New Amsterdam -New Netherlands (what the English call New York)helped tar and feather and ride across the border on a rail to their new home. I am so glad that we were able to help make Canada the land it is, see, we can all work together.My Native ancestors, the Shinnecocks, on eastern Long Island also helped in this, I guess that explains how the Nativeand Dutch lines eventually merged over a century later, and now y'all have me, ain'tcha glad?
still, this descendant of Revolutionary soldiers likesthe Queen, and I say welcome to America your Majesty. God save the Queen!
Much Love,
Jonn

Dear Alexis,

My point is simply that the impetus for the abolition of slavery in the British Empire came from Christian parliamentarians, such as William Wilberforce.

In the U.S., it was a matter of expediency during the Civil War.

I'm sure there were lots of people in the British Empire who fought against the abolition of slavery. And this abolition did not abolish racial discrimination.

Alex

Dear Kobzar,

I met some Russian generals during a visit to the Legislature last year.

They all agreed that they would have preferred the Tsars, even the most cruel ones, over the Soviet dictators any time!

May the Romanovs return to their throne in Russia!

Alex

Dear John,

I salute you, my dear American brother!

Alex

Dear Zenovia,

The Cross of Greece is part of the arms of Prince Philip that stands outside our parliament here.

In Canada, we do not "beware of Greeks" - bearing gifts or otherwise!

Alex

Dear SPDundas,

I salute you as well, sir!

And where would we Canadians be without shopping in Buffalo et al.?

Alex

I enjoyed my time as a student in England. I'm glad to be able to count the British as our allies - and yeah, my dad's family is from Ireland. He was an airman stationed in England in WW2.

I think it is good that the queen is coming to Virginia for the anniversary. Our common history is strong. I had to laugh at the stuff in the local papers about bowing and curtseying - the latter loooks particularly silly when one is not wearing a floor length gown - and as I told my buds back in England, if I ever happen to be lucky enough to see her, this American will be thrilled to give her a hearty handshake, but that's it. Bowing and curtseying are out. Won't happen.

On slavery, it is a long and complicated history, but I nevertheless believe that all human beings are made in the image of the Almighty deserve to be treated with dignity and respect by their fellow human beings. I also believe it is a sin to defraud a worker of his honest wages, as the old catechism used to describe it. A system based upon buying and selling people, that caused breaking up of families, and that permitted the rape and abuse of women cannot be justified. We have many unmarked slaves' graves in graveyards around Virginia. I cannot help it, but it brings a tear to my eye whenever I visit one.

Enjoy.

Hard times for the monarchy. [that1blog.blogspot.com]

In many ways, life was actually worse in the industrialized cities of the North than under slavery in the South. Working a slave to death just wasen't smart business practice, but in many of the various mills and factories in the North you could work a man, woman or child to near death and then just hire their replacement for next to nothing.

Dear John,

Actually it was from a British sitcom. A man's wife was adamantly against royalty. When her husband said that one of the royals was visiting the area, she responded by saying, "which one? I hope it's not the one that married the Greek sailor"? I found it very funny, as you can tell from my posts.

God Bless,

Zenovia

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Dear Alex,

Uhhh! I think it would be smart to beware of Greeks bearing gifts. Never discard what the ancients said and knew.

God Bless,

Zenovia

Well, of course, the industrial revolution was not without pain. Extreme pain. Lotsa pain. There were a lot of inhumane practices going on. But just because a factory worker in the North had it bad doesn't mean that a slave in the South had it good. A friend of mine who is descended of freed African slaves was very suprised to read about the Irish worked to death in the bayous. It was far cheaper to work a free Irishman to death, whose "worth" was nil and who would work for peanuts, then to waste a valuable slave you had paid for and had some interest in keeping healthy.

It is not about political correctness, Zenovia. The debate about slavery was as old as the Republic (and older) and it ended up being intertwined in a very bloody conflict. Really, the concept of "owned" is the part that I would find unbearable. I think it is the part that makes most Americans squirm.

Now about the worst conditions I could imagine as a free person would be the British Navy at about the time of the Nore Mutiny... squalid conditions, overcrowding, disease, low wages. Improved technology meant longer cruises and better chance of never returning. It's all relative. To me, that would be about the worst. And of course, when "President" Parker attempted to assert himself, he was dealt with via the gallows.

Dear Zenovia:
I still insist that is preposterous to suggest that the American slaves in the South were treated humanely. Were slaves in the Caribbean treated even worse? No doubt they were, but that should not be used to suggest that slave owners in the USA were virtuous in the way they treated the slaves, when in fact, the way they treated the slaves was quite wicked, and to try to make evil out to be virtue is rather perverse, in my opinion. Furthermore, the fact that many white workers in the North were treated shamefully by their employers is no reason to whitewash the shameful legacy of slavery. Rather, it merely points to the greed and immorality of people such as Carnegie.

Ryan