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Praying for Russia is never inappropriate - just as praying for anyone is never imappropriate.

"Conversion" is something we all need, always. But it would be best to use a prayer which implies that we must turn towards God, not that "they" must join "us". In this respect, Pope John Paul II admirably teaches in Ut Unum Sint that there is a "primacy of prayer" in the work for Christian unity, and that we are all called to pray for that unity which Christ wills for His Church.

Additionally, there are still some problems regarding freedom of religion in Russia - oddly enough, both the Old-Ritualists and the Greek-Catholics have difficulties. It would not surprise me to learn that the Moscow Patriarchate has difficulties in some more obscure places - old bureaucrats from the Soviet era are still around, and old habits of old bureaucrats die hard!

Russia itself still covets the territory of other countries, which is at least questionable, and makes use of the Moscow Patriarchate in efforts to advance this dubious goal. On the other hand, as the blessed reconciliation between the Moscow Patriarchate and the Russian Orthodox Church Outside of Russia is only six days off, we might well pray for the healing of other schisms in the countries of the former Soviet Union.

Fr. Serge

Dear Friends,

Most Holy Theotokos of Fatima, save us!

In fact, there was not the slightest mention of Russia at the Fatima Shrine - only a beautiful focus on the Mass and Holy Communion (it was a First Saturday), the meditated Rosary for various intentions and an energizing silent gaze at the Mother of God before which the three children knelt.

That is truly something that will never go out of style!

Alex

Years back, I remember reading, in a Blue Army journal, that Met. Nikodim of ROC-MP, who had been a KGB operative at the time of Patriarch Pimen, had had a genuine conversion to Christ. He attributed his conversion to having been forced to learn Scripture. Subsequent to his conversion, he visited Fatima, and was heard to say that he believed in the reality of those apparitions and messages, and was impressed by the solicitude toward the well-being of Russia expressed by the Most Holy Theotokos. I believe it was Met. Nikodim who collapsed and died of a heart attack while visiting Pope John Paul I (who reigned for about 23 days), and who received Final Anointing from that Pope!

Christ Is Risen!
Dn. Robert

For me the worrisome thing about the Fatima Crusader and Fr. Gruner is not that their devotion to the Theotokos, or even their insistence upon praying for the "conversion" of Russia.

But what that phrase means to so many traditionalist Catholics (SSPXers and sedevacantists alike) which is that the "conversion of Russia" means to many of them that all Russian Orthodox will become Roman Catholics.

Also troubling is the cult-like zealousness by which adherents of Fr. Gruner's judge the Catholicism of others based on their opinion of Fatima, the third secret "conspiracy" and other X-Files worthy theories.

It is not the Fatima apparition that is necessarily the problem but the interpretation of and use of the apparition by so-called "traditionalist Catholics."

Dear Father Deacon Robert,

Yes, indeed and I understand that Met. Nikodim actually died as a Catholic in the arms of that pope.

There are today, I have it on good authority, at least two Russian Orthodox bishops who are "secretly in communion with Rome."

I too know an Orthodox priest who believes in Fatima and who says that the prophecy of Our Lady of Fatima with respect to Russia has already been fulfilled - the Orthodox Church is in full swing, the parishes are full etc.

Alex

Alex,

How can one be "secretly in communion with Rome?" Is that like being an "anonymous Christian?" I can understand in the short term why someone, changing Churches, might wait for the appropriate and tactful moment to announce such a decision, but I hope that this bishops are not intending to remain as Orthodox bishops for the long term while having this other secret connection. That seems dishonest to me.

Joe

I met Fr. Gruner about twenty years ago, at a rosary rally. My impression of him was that he was zealous, and probably "over-heated".

As to the question of the "conversion of Russia", somewhere in my house I have a book on the Fatima topic (my memory is faded-it may have been written by a deceased British Catholic author named Francis Johnston). The author indicates having known a German woman who had been intensely involved in spreading the Fatima devotion. She had a private meeting with Sr. Lucia while visiting Fatima, and had claimed to ask Sr. Lucia how the conversion of Russia would come about. Reportedly, Sr. Lucia told her that the country would return to the Russian Orthodox Church, and that, subsequent to that return, there would be a restoration of full communion of that Church with the Catholic Church. As a Greek Catholic, I like that scenario!

Wow! You wrote this while I was writng my prior post. They definitely "dovetail".

Dn. Robert

Dear Joe,

Well, the Slavic Orthodox Churches have quite the tradition on this score!

I had relatives who grew up in the Russian Orthodox Church since their UGCC was destroyed "Many Tanks" to the Soviet Union that used the Russian Orthodox Church to do its dirty work in 1946.

(Other EC's simply joined the RC Church and that is largely why there is a Ukrainian Roman Catholic Church in Ukraine today).

Two of those relatives became Russian Orthodox priests, one of them with a doctorate in Orthodox theology from Moscow (he did his thesis on the Filioque, would you believe . . .).

But there was no question that they were always Ukrainian Catholic, in communion with Rome, secretly praying for the resurrection of their Church one day AND for the Holy Father in Rome. This was what was told to me by my relative with the doctorate in Orthodox theology when he visited here some years ago and prior to Gorbachev.

And when the moment of opportunity came, these priests met with Orthodox hierarchs and began singing "Many Years" for Pope John Paul II and soon the entire city of Lviv was singing that and the UGCC came alive from the catacombs!

There was also the case of St Peter I, Orthodox Met. of Kyiv who actually signed the Union of Lyons and since he never repudiated it, he is in the Catholic calendar of Saints.

Perhaps those Russian bishops don't see their communion with Rome as having violated their Orthodoxy. Indeed, Russian Catholics, who set the greatest example of fidelity to Eastern traditions, usually describe themselves in this way, "Orthodox and recognizing the supremacy of the Pope of Rome."

Alex

Dear Carole,

I think the greatest worry of the Latin Church these days is the number of its ranks who either join the Eastern Church or else wish they could . . .

Nowadays, whenever I meet a strident ECer in our parishes, I always ask them if they are a convert from Roman Catholicism . . .

To paraphrase St Paul, "I wish all the (Latin) world were like me (EC)!"

Alex

Dear Father Deacon,

Dovetail indeed. Birds of a feather . . . and all that . . .

Speaking of secrets, I secretly loved the statue of Our Lady of Fatima that the Shrine had at the front. Maybe I'm secretly "Latin" or something . . .

(Hope that doesn't get me in trouble here with our "Eastern Police!" )

Alex

Secretly?

I agree with Carole that the apparition is not the problem. I guess I should start with the disclaimer that I am not necessarily a believer in Fatima or any other apparition, although I believe that Mary is the greatest advocate for Christians and think the idea that she might have talked to one or two folks across the centuries is interesting and perhaps comforting. I really become concerned when people seem to commandeer the holy persona of Mary to spread gloom and doom and put forward their own agenda. There seems to be quite a bit of that.

I always wondered why anyone would think the Fatima message would be that Orthodox Russians would in any way need to become Roman Catholics.

Fanaticism. Zealotry. Ignorance. And/or a dislike for anything Orthodox. At least that is what I have seen in my personal experience with the self-identified traditionalist Catholics (particularly SSPX supporters and members of sedevacantist groups).

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Is the Fatima devotion anti-ecumenical (Orthodox/Catholic)? Is it outdated? Is it something that can continue to have relevance for the EC Churches?

What say you?

Dear Alex,

Praying for others is never outdated. As for the revelations at Fatima, one must remember that both children are saints. The third child Lucia, I believe is still alive.

At the time of the miracle, Portugal was in an upheaval, as was all of Europe. WW I was raging, and communism became a world wide threat.

That people would have believed that the miracle and revelation meant that Russia should become Catholic, is in a way rediculous. Especially when one considers the circumstances and what was going on in Russia at the time. When the revelations occurred, and our Theotokos said to pray for Russia, The Czar had resigned, and atheism was taking hold. What greater power than prayer for the conversion of a nation that had become athiestic. They say that sixty million people ended up dying in the famines and persecutions in that part of the world.

Father Arseny, a future saint of Russia that had sufferred in the Gulag for thirty years, said the sufferings of the people of Russia was because of the sins of the priests... since it is the priests that lead the people. The new Russian saint, Saint Luke the Surgeon, also said that Russia became communist because of it's manifold sins. If then a nation loses it's soul because of sin, then what better way for it to gain it back, than through prayers from devout people. The world was asked to pray at Fatima and the Pope, by being asked to consecrate Russia, was basically asked to pray for an Orthodox nation. That was something quite unusual when we consider the prevalent attitude of the RCC towards the Orthodox, and for that matter, towards all Christian denominations during the past centuries.

It would have been an act of humility on the Pope's part, and I do believe that it had occurred under Pope John Paul II. I heard, and I might be wrong, that he asked all the bishops of the world, and all the Christian religious leaders to pray with him for Russia. This was supposed to have occurred during the 1980's, a time when the Soviet Union was considering a nuclear war...or so I heard.

God Bless,

Zenovia