www.byzcath.org Forums General Discussions Town Hall Disappointed with EWTN's Journey Home last night

Am I right to assume that this is a neologism?

I just found it funny.

I second the comments of Alice and the Administrator. I suppose what bothered me was the news that some Bishops didn't want their clergy to wear a cassock even when carrying out church business (outside of the Liturgy). My former spiritual father, a monk, normally wore his cassock, but if he was going swimming, or doing some really grungy yard work or painting, he obviously didn't.

Joe

There is an important distinction here:

Yes, there are times when one can appreciate that a cleric might prefer to wear lay clothing for an understandable reason - if one is taking a long plane flight, especially overnight, for example. Or if one is taking his family to the beach. [Or, in my own immediate case, if in my own home, seated in my second-floor workroom, with the dog for company, I am wearing cordury slacks, a sports shirt, sandals, and the usual underclothes.]

The case is altered, though, by three considerations at least:

a) is the cleric representing the Church in a reasonably formal way?

b) is the cleric wearing some semblance of clerical attire taken from some other tradition?

c) is the cleric in a place where he is normally expected to dress as deacon, priest, or bishop (as the case may be)?

Nobody expects me to forego baths (never mind the "odor of sanctity"!), and nobody expects me to wear a rasso in the shower (I hasten to add that nobody checks to see what I am in fact wearing in the shower!). But neither does anyone blink when I walk into a bookstore wearing a cassock, or come to the hospital garbed in rasso to visit a sick parishioner - and my parishioners are certainly not shocked if, when they invite me to their homes, I show up looking like a priest, of all things.

When the terrible scandals hit Toronto, I was already accustomed to walk on the street in the cassock with a Cross. No one ever abused me. Many clergy, though, stopped wearing the "Roman Collar", because they were frequently abused! I've often been stopped in the street and in shops by total strangers who simply wish to say how nice it is to see a priest dressed properly.

In the late sixties in Washington a priest friend commented that in times past one could distinguish a Benedictine from a Dominican from a Franciscan at a glance - but now everyone was determined to express his individuality, so all the clergy students were wearing the same style of black "clergy-shirt".

Then I remember one newly-minted priest appearing at a Church affair where I was also present; the young priest was wearing a white leisure suit and a powder-blue clergy shirt. A parishioner approached me and said quietly: "You know, Father, all that guy needs is a store front and a tambourine!"

All of this simply boils down to the suggestion that common sense is helpful in these matters.

Fr. Serge

[Linked Image]

[Linked Image]

[Linked Image]

Certainly no slacker here!

Gordo

All elbows and knees.

....and we are pleased to note that our resident Irish priest forsakes the Un-usual.

Rosie o'Grady that Grumpy Old Lady

Ah. Just another turban legend...

Very cute pun!

If the traditional clerical attire represents the era of 'Turkokratia', how then would one explain the black traditional clerical attire worn by Italian Roman Catholic clerics?!?

...Although there is one difference I must admit: the Italian Roman Catholic 'rassa' are impeccably tailored and quite designeresque compared to the mundane looking Orthodox ones! Leave it to the Italians, whose motto should be: 'In all things, fashion'!

How can you not love them!

By the way, I thought this Greek expression might sum up this whole thread nicely:

"To rasso then kanei ton Papa"
"The cassock does not in itself make the Priest"

Alice

�ber-vostochnik is a term we coined in P-burgh among the Easterns - Catholic and Orthodox - who seemed more committed to the "Greek" part of Greek Catholic/Greek Orthodox. The desire to realize a very Byzantinized Sub-Alleghania Rus, form took precedent. "Look at him! He only has a chotki with 300 knots!"

It is out there.

Simple

Your point being?
Stephanos I

A chotki with only 300 knots? Is outrage!

Dear Friends,

Father Archimandrite's longer post above on clerical dress is a truly "Classic Keleher" gem which I've downloaded to keep in a protected place for future generations!

One priest from the UGCC parish of the Holy Dormition on Cawthra Road in Mississauga, who has reposed in the Lord (+memory eternal!) always had a 300 knot chotki wrapped all the way up his left arm. He also liked to carry a rather distinguishable three bar Cross . . .

I once entertained an Orthodox Bishop at the Legislature here. When he walked through the halls, his black robe "swishing" about, so many people turned, often to cross themselves as he blessed them etc. Everyone was smiling.

They knew that a Bishop was among them.

I've a question for the Distinguishable Father Archimandrite.

What is permissible for EC/EO laity to wear by way of religious items?

May we wear the prayer rope, do we need a blessing from a Priest for this? Given the context, is it permissible to wear one's neck Cross on top of one's clothing?

I would normally wear an Orthodox Cross lapel pin and have a prayer rope around my left wrist. Is that O.K.?

Alex

Historically I don't think the point stands. It's more of a general viewpoint to show the church was/is captive to the Turks and it's time to distance ourselves from this period.

I think it's wrong to mandate what one way or another what the priest's should wear. Let them do what they're comfortable with. They have enough headaches.

Dear Andrew,

Well said!



Ofcourse I knew this, and I have heard it said over and over again, almost mantra like by some whose agenda it forwards--

I was just teasing you and playing devil's advocate about the robes worn by the Italians as well.

God bless,
Alice

Dear Friends,

Fr Ireney Nazarko OSBM in his "Kyivan and Galician Metropolitans" refers to a local synod of the Polish Catholic bishops who actually condemn the "uniates" for "infecting" RC seminarians and clergy with their own vestment styles!

They refer specifically to the long-sleeved black robes that "uniates" wear and call the "uniates" a worse "yazva" (the word defies translation I think, suffice it to say it is not a compliment . . .) than the Orthodox "schismatics" since the "uniates" influence "our clergy to follow in their ways."

I'm interested in all this because my mother is a dressmaker . . .

Alex

I can't imagine Karol Wojtila would wear a cassock skiing!

Anyway, I spent some time at St. Charles myself, and we wore cassocks for everything. however, for class, we could either wear a cassock or clerical collar/black pants (must be all black). You can learn a lot about your classmates based on their clothing preference. The Philly guys all jumped into the clerical shirt but most of us coal region (and the Lincoln) guys would wear our cassocks all day. Even to this day, my friends who are now priests for Allentown will wear cassocks out and about (one even started wearing a biretta, God help us!).

We shocked the parish at my brother's wedding when I bet the priest (an old buddy) to show up in cassock, cape, and biretta. He took the bet, too. Then he properly used the biretta for the liturgy as well -- quite a few of the younger folk were asking why the priest was wearing a hat in Mass!

Anyway, my point is that I agree that priests should look like priests. The clerical roman collar has always been something I hated, even when I wore one in class. The tab thing sucks, in my opinion, and would wear against my neck. Just my personal complaint.

But I wear a kilt now and then, so a cassock seems quite natural.