www.byzcath.org Forums News & Events Church News French Priest thrown out of parish (has a girlfriend)

Lance,

I haven't seen the show.

But, I have heard (my source remains anonymous) that the bishop can give a dispensation from the rule of no relations the night before Liturgy (ie a rector of a cathedral who offers the Liturgy daily.)

Second point, to paraphrase the joke that Dr. Alex told a few months ago "That's what the afternoons are for!"

Wondering you are being most uncharitable in this meter. You don not know the circumstance of what has transpired, yet you seem to be all willing to condemn this man.

Why don't you speak out against the hypocrisy that lets Eastern Catholic priests be married, while forbidding this very thing to their Latin brothers.

Are we to believe that there should be a different bar for East and West?

When I say allow priests to marry I do not mean post ordination.

Let me rephrase that.

Allow them to be married before they are ordained, as in the Orthodox Church.

Okay, let's look at the ramifications of this priest assuaging his loneliness. How can he speak out against premarital or extramarital sex (which is rampant in both Latin America and France)? He can't and his parishioners and their children are watching and modelling his behavior. How does he comfort the wives of unfaithful men or counsel unfaithful men or mistresses?His moral authority is corroded.
A man charged with looking after the spiritual state of those in his care obviously is not very mindful of his the state of mistress' soul and her spiritual health.He is colluding and encouraging her to flout the Church's sexual parameters and he will have to answer for that lonely or not.His desire not to be lonely affects the spiritual state and life of those he chooses to involve in his "solution" to loneliness.

It sounds like both celibacy and married priesthood have their crosses. Would that prospective priests could marry before ordination (and their wives receive support and guidance) but right now that is not the case and if a priest willing chooses to become a RC priest then he must obey the present requirements.. And Wondering is correct that a promise, a vow does mean something. It is a vow made before God .

At least they are attracted to women.

Unlike Ted Haggard.

Dear PrJ,

I recall reading Rouseau, and how he converted to Catholicism from Protestanism in France, only to change back again when hearing the priests talking about their mistresses.

God Bless,

Zenovia

This reminds me of a Mexican movie that I saw recently, 'The Crime of Padre Amaro' - the story of a young, idealistic priest, assigned to his first parish and falls in love with a peasant girl - with disastrous consequences!
-Wolfgang

Dear Wondering,

I couldn't agree with you more. I recall the first time, (and believe me I was quite old), when someone told me that not all priests are called to the priesthood. To most it is simply a vocation. I guess I was naive. I later found out that they were right... to my chagrin.

As for the celibate or married pristhood, there are pro's and con's on both sides. My priest is married, and he is a 'real' priest. Highly devout, and trying hard to restore the Church back to it's traditions and practices. I don't believe he's the norm.

It is hard though for them to be married. They have so many problems with the Church board, as well as the parishioners. They cannot spend as much time at home as they should be spending, and must do everything possible to be the best husband possible. We have too many cases of wives getting fed up and leaving their husbands. Priests also cannot remarry. I believe the divorce rate is high, although I do not believe it is 50%... it might be though among the Protestants.

I believe one of our problems is that our priests, (and by that I mean the GOA), encourages the seminarians to marry when there are many that could have remained celibate, as well as having many seminarians waiting to get married in order to become priests. All in all, we too have a shortage of priests, even considering that the wages in the GOA are probably the highest in the world.

God Bless,

Zenovia

I think being the wife of a priest or prominent religious leader is always challenging(imagine what life must have been like as Mrs.Martin Luther King, Jr.) In an interview Billy Graham nearly cried when he said that his biggest regret was that of spending too little time with his family.
Clearly being a priest (married or celibate)or a presbytera is truly a sacred calling.

Dear Friends,

In fact, Pope Alexander VI himself had four children out of wedlock and began extra-clerical relations following his priestly ordination . . .

And one pope apparently died of a stroke while in the bed of a married woman . . .

So as a Catholic, I think we're being too hard on celibate priests . . .

Alex

Yesterday, I was reading through the pastoral epistles (I and II Timothy and Titus) and looking at the qualifications for being a Bishop/Presbyter or Deacon. What is clear from text, I think, is that those who are to be ordained to holy orders should be men whose maturity has been tested. They have shown themselves to be wise rulers of their own households, sober, vigilant, and of good reputation. In light of these qualifications, perhaps we might ask the question of whether the minimum age for ordination is too low? I don't know what it is in either the Orthodox or Catholic Churches but I've met many young Catholic priests who couldn't have been older than 25. I know that in the EC Churches, 35 is the minimum age for being a married deacon. Perhaps, we should make 35 the minimum age for all major orders, whether celibate or married. Also, if one is married, perhaps there should be a rule that sets of minimum on the amount of time one must be married before being ordained (10 years perhaps?). It just seems to me that being in one's teens or twenties is just too young for most people to make these kinds of decisions. Perhaps, I'm just getting older, but I realize that my perspective, at 37, is much different than it was when I was 24, or especially when I was 18.

And I do think that the mandatory celibacy rule is unbiblical and unjust. Just think of the number of men that God may have called to the priesthood, but did not become priests because they wisely discerned that the loneliness of celibacy would be too difficult for them. Also, with the mandatory celibacy rule and married deacons, you have a situation where many married men who feel called to the priesthood settle for being a deacon, when maybe they are not called to be a deacon. I know I experienced this feeling in myself when I was a Melkite. I felt called to the priesthood, but since I knew that this was impossible, I thought, "oh well, at least I can be a deacon." Does Rome really want a Church made up of deacons, a large number of whom wish to be priests?
And perhaps the allowing Deacons to perform priestly functions such as baptisms and weddings encourages married men who want to be priests to consider the deaconate as the next best thing. And so in the Latin Church, the deaconate then just becomes a next best thing to the priesthood, or a pseudo-substitute for the priesthood and it is still not looked upon, popularly, as really being Holy Orders, since all respect in the Latin Church goes to the celibate priests. I think Andrew is right that the mandatory celibacy rule for priests has been a disaster for the Roman Catholic Church.


Joe

I do not condemn him. I support his bishop.

I do and I have. What does this have to do with this Latin priest in Italy who has decided his mistress is more important than his faith? You could have just as easily complained about the lack of monastic tonsuring and the built-in community that provides for celibate priests. Neither has anything to do with this man. You think it is charitable--loving--to allow him to be guiding others in the faith? What of the love for his salvation and the salvation of all those he has led astray, scandalized, or made complicit in his sins?

As I said before, I would support an Eastern bishop laicizing a celibate priest who had abused his position of authority in the church, publicly flaunted his breaking of his vow to God, gave media interviews to encourage others to support him in his sin, led at least one of his parishioners into life-long and unrepentant sin, encouraged the sin of others, had sexual relations outside of marriage, justified his long-term concubinage, ignored the counsel and direction of his spiritual elders, and left the church when confronted with his sin.


Do you believe that would have solved this man's situation? I do not. His moral character is one that allowed him to publicly flaunt a vow he had chosen to make, under no coercion, to be a celibate priest. The east also has celibate priests and also expects them to remain celibate. This man, when confronted with his sin, has not shown any remorse but has instead publicly left the church and persisted in his sin. This is not the moral caliber of a man I would want to be a priest, whether married first or not. This is not the man I would want to use as a poster child for why we should also have a married priesthood. Instead, I would rather point out holy married men who have proven that they will keep a vow and can guide a household. Men who would be holy priests who wouldn't subject us to such scandal and sin.

We need holy men who lead lives striving for holiness to be our leaders. I am in favor of choosing from among married men. I do not believe a married clergy would have been the answer for this man. I do not believe a married clergy is a panacea to the priest shortage, the concubinage, the pedophilia scandals, or any other ill plaguing the priesthood. I believe the panacea is expecting our priests to be holy leaders who keep their vows.

Joe:

In the Latin Church, the minimum age for ordination to Holy Orders are as follows:

(1) Transitional Deacons (seminarians/priests-to-be): 23 years;
(2) Permanent Deacons: 25 if unmarried, 35 if married;
(3) Priests: 25 years; and
(4) Bishops: 35 years.

In the U.S., the average age of ordinands to the priesthood has been rising. For the Ordination Class of 2007, the average age of the 475 ordinands is 35.

I have not heard of any Latin Bishop being ordained younger than 40.

Joe,

The bishop of Chicago told me that a man had to be married for 10 years before he could be ordained in his eparchy.

I don't know what everyone else's requirements are.

I think Cardinal Sepe was ordained as a bishop at 36.