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Joined: Jan 2007
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That would certainly not be true in America. Celibate priests pastoring parishes, while not exceedingly common, are certainly part of the current ecclesiastical world in America.

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Originally Posted by PrJ
That would certainly not be true in America. Celibate priests pastoring parishes, while not exceedingly common, are certainly part of the current ecclesiastical world in America.

My experiences corroborate that as well, Father. If the monk priests are not full time parish priests, many have spent some time in a parish, and not just cathedral parishes. They are very good for the spiritual life of a parish and seem to be well loved by the people from what I can see.

Mary

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There are some who are called by the Lord to be Monastics. They are really admirable people who through their bloodless sacrifice pray for all the world and every one in it. We are lucky to have such men with us. Priest Monks are great! I love them. I respect them. I am thankful for their prayers.

Having said that, I do not believe that ALL priests in RC are being called to Monasticism. Many of them however are being called to be Priests , and celibacy which is being forced on them is not only UNHEALTHY, but it puts these poor men through spiritual, emotional and physical anguish that nobody deserves to live with all of their lives.

I don't understand how any of us can judge this man? Who are we to judge him? Do we know the emotional anguish that He faced everyday? Have we heard His prayers asking the Lord for absolution, and for help? Have we been in his shoes?

Being torn apart a by the choice between the profession he was called to by God and His love for this person.

How many young man become Priests with the best intentions, only to find out that they can not bear to be alone...

So yes... Call me a softy, but I DO think that forced celibacy is "unhealthy".... I would say it is downright harmful to the people subjected to this.

Also, Mary, I am sorry if I offend you, but you seem to have a very negative view of sexuality or as you term it "genital expression"

Again I am sorry if I am wrong, but it just seems to be the case.

I am not an advocate for free love or anything, but I do believe that sexuality is a gift from God to a loving married couple, where the "genital expression" is a very important part of the relationship. A way to give yourself fully to your partner. A way to be close to each other.


Last edited by Subdeacon Borislav; 05/22/07 07:37 PM.
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Originally Posted by Subdeacon Borislav
There are some who are called by the Lord to be Monastics. They are really admirable people who through their bloodless sacrifice pray for all the world and every one in it. We are lucky to have such men with us. Priest Monks are great! I love them. I respect them. I am thankful for their prayers.

Having said that, I do not believe that ALL priests in RC are being called to Monasticism. Many of them however are being called to be Priests , and celibacy which is being forced on them is not only UNHEALTHY, but it puts these poor men through spiritual, emotional and physical anguish that nobody deserves to live with all of their lives.

I don't understand how any of us can judge this man? Who are we to judge him? Do we know the emotional anguish that He faced everyday? Have we heard His prayers asking the Lord for absolution, and for help? Have we been in his shoes?

Being torn apart a by the choice between the profession he was called to by God and His love for this person.

How many young man become Priests with the best intentions, only to find out that they can not bear to be alone...

So yes... Call me a softy, but I DO think that forced celibacy is "unhealthy".... I would say it is downright harmful to the people subjected to this.

Also, Mary, I am sorry if I offend you, but you seem to have a very negative view of sexuality or as you term it "genital expression"

Again I am sorry if I am wrong, but it just seems to be the case.

I am not an advocate for free love or anything, but I do believe that sexuality is a gift from God to a loving married couple, where the "genital expression" is a very important part of the relationship. A way to give yourself fully to your partner. A way to be close to each other.

I'll leave your note intact here.

In the first place you've totally ignored the fact that even married men fall in love with women other than their wives, and in some cases it seems for all the world that the other woman is their true soul mate. Neither the Catholic Church nor Orthodoxy advise in favor of dumping the old to put on the new. We only do that with our sinful selves, not our worn out spouses.

That is really the dilemma that our handsome French couple face, and not the choice between marriage and the single estate. He could have been just as sorely tempted had he been married to Angelique rather than to Christ.

And you also forget that priests in the Latin rite do make choices. Now there was a time when the minor seminaries were in full swing that a boy left home at 13 and never really went back into the world till he was ordained. That has not proven to be a "good" solution to the temptations of the world for the celibate vocation.

One ideally controls one's sexuality. One does not suppress it. One controls autoerotic tendencies. One does not pretend that they are not tempted to masturbate. These are the very passions that the desert fathers tell us can be controlled, that one can find peace in the midst of the flood of sexual desire.

Now the question is do we believe that or do we fall in line with the idea that 'nobody should have to be subjected to this'...presuming 'this' means living without sex, and living without female companionship. Those who choose the priestly life in the Latin rite are not choosing something that they are not aware of before hand and many are already committed to solitude and chastity as a way of life before they enter the seminary. Not everyone who enters is ordained either, so some testing does go one before ordination.

Clinicians tend to differentiate between genital expressions of one's sexuality and non-genital expressions. You might accuse me of being "too clinical" in this but you surely cannot know my sexual history.

In fact I have never married, have more than one child, and have enjoyed a rather unencumbered youth and middle age. I chose my partners, one by one, and danced the dance till one day the music no longer enlivened my feet, and my sins bore me lower than the worms.

Since I returned to the Church, I put aside my deep need to be attached to a male in order to complete my identity, to sexual intercourse, and to the security of the second pay-check. I came back to the Church and raised my son alone.

If you think that it has been easy the past 20 or so years, in the prime of my life, to live chastely and alone, you are loony!!

But it is my choice, and I can and do live that way, because I owe it to my Lord, to repent my sins and live as He would have had me live from the beginning....chastely and in heroic continence.

Blessings....Mary


Last edited by Elijahmaria; 05/22/07 08:32 PM.
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Mary,

My statement was in no way a personal attack on you.

The expression you used to describe sexuality just sounded rather cold, hence my comments.

I was not questioning your experiences or life, nor did I intend to interrogate you.

I am sorry...






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Originally Posted by Subdeacon Borislav
Mary,

My statement was in no way a personal attack on you.

The expression you used to describe sexuality just sounded rather cold, hence my comments.

I was not questioning your experiences or life, nor did I intend to interrogate you.

I am sorry...

If it helps for me to explicitly demonstrate that I have some real knowledge about that which I speak here, then there is no harm done. I did not reveal that part of my life in anger, dearheart. Not at all.

You never need apologize to me.

You are one of several young and middle aged males here for whom I have a great deal of fondness and genuine respect. And for whom I have high hopes for the future and I believe that you and some of the others have a great deal to offer our respective confessions and that makes my heart sing and gives me great hope.

There is much to be learned in life. Some of us...like me...take an awful long and hard time to learn it.

Not to worry.

Mary

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Thank you.

Like I told you in a private email. I tend to be a little hot headed sometimes, so bear with me wink


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Originally Posted by Subdeacon Borislav
Thank you.

Like I told you in a private email. I tend to be a little hot headed sometimes, so bear with me wink


Always!

M.

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