www.byzcath.org Forums Faith & Christian Life Faith & Theology Holy Father wishes for a return to Latin... what about Slavonic?

This, from the "Latest News" section of the current home page of byzcath.org...



Just wondering... what if we were to substitute the word Slavonic" for the word "Latin" in the above quote? Perhaps, also, what if we added the adjective "Byzantine" immediately in front of the word "Catholics" in this same quote? What if we do these things and now re-read this quote? Is there a lesson to be learned here??

Al (a pilgrim... who dearly misses the Slavonic Liturgy)

Well, I don't think Pope Benedict and the RC Church will want a Slavonic liturgy, although I can see a sizeable number of RC's liking the Byzantine Rite . . .

It is true, most kidding aside, that there is a lot to be said about praying in a language that is not the "language of the street" or the "daily language."

This is also why our Ukrainian language liturgies are a translation that is actually a "mish-mash" of Ukrainian and Slavonic.

There are words in the Slavonic that are simply left the way they are and are carried over into the Ukrainian translation.

For example, "Nasuchney" rather than "Schodenny" (Daily, as you know), "Suscha Bohoroditsia" rather than "Pravdiva Bohoroditsia."

Even the Old Believers did this and changed certain Slavonic words that, in the modern Russian, could be understood in an offensive way e.g. "Voistynnu" rather than "Bez sravnenie" in the prayer "Dostoyno yest" for obvious reasons.

Latin is not such a difficult language to pray in, especially since the prayers are said over and over from day to day.

Hard work is always involved, however. When our UGCC Synod established a set Our Father and Hail Mary (different from the translation I grew up with) and asked all UGCCers to use it, I took that as a command.

But it took me a full week of using it in the Rosary to get used to it until it became second nature.

If we are willing to work a bit at language, we can do it. If not, then it's English, period!

Alex

Well, I spent much of this evening chanting Church-Slavonic quite happily and seem to have suffered no ill effects!

Fr. Serge

Bless, Father Archimandrite!

It just goes to show you that some hard work never hurt anyone!

But really, you must have a gift of tongues - your Ukrainian, Russian and Slavonic are so impeccable!

I'll never forget the day we spoke at a conference held in the basement of St Nicholas' parish. I parted by thanking you profusely for your dedication to the UGCC and you replied by saying, "Think nothing of it, cholovitche!"

For those who are happy to manage English alone in a passable way, (kidding! ) what Father said was, "Think nothing of it man!"

Kissing your right hand, I again implore your blessing,

Your wayward pupil,

Alex

As someone who supports the Latin Tridentine Mass 110 pct, I think it would be great to see a major return to Church Slavonic. In 2007 I've been attending Ukrainian Catholic liturgy as much as the Latin Mass, due in part to gas prices. And since I'm just getting out of bed when the English liturgy is being said, I always attend the Ukrainian one almost 3 hours later. Even though it might seem hard to understand I know what's going on and it's still beautiful.

Bless, Father!

I have commented in the past on this Forum on how I always pray in Slavonic when I visit the graves of my Ruthenian ancestors - I fear that they just wouldn't understand me if I prayed in English!

My nightly devotions, too, are recited in Slavonic. Truth be told, I'm fearful of losing my meager grasp of the tongue of my people if I don't use it on a regular basis - the ol' "use-it-or-lose-it" mentality. Sadly, my own children know little to none of the Slavonic language of their people. They did not grow up with the exposure to it that I did... nor, apparently, will they enjoy that opportunity from this point on in their lives. I guess, in my family at least, it's destined to die with me regardless of my efforts. Still, it fills me with humble pride to be able to recite the "Otce Nas" or "Viruju" as did my beloved family members who came before me.

I am, however, very thankful for my "Chlib Dusi" Prayerbook! Although most of my Slavonic prayers have been long ago committed to my memory since my youth, my grasp of the Cyrillic alphabet is slow and plodding at best - nice to be able to read the words of these prayers as written in characters that I understand!

Vo Imja Otca, i Syna, i Svataho Ducha. Amin.

Al (a pilgrim)

Dear Alex,

Thanks for the compliment - but I really wouldn't consider Church-Slavonic to be in the "hard work" category. It's a most enjoyable tongue.

Last evening a friend reminded me of the time that a priest we both knew came into a parish hall and greeted me, rather strangely with "Как як?" Without pausing or turning a hair, I responded: "I'm sorry, Father, but I don't own a yak!".

Fr. Serge

Bless, Father Archimandrite!

When did you start learning the Slavic tongues? How long did it take you?

Or did this happen suddenly during Pentecost one year?

Alex

Dear Lawrence and Pilgrim,

You remind me of the time, 12 years ago, when I visited my childhood home on my 40th birthday.

Nuns live there now and I told them my lifestory blah blah blah. I was in tears as everywhere I looked I remembered myself running around as a child, my parents, the traditions we celebrated etc.

Where my mother had her workshop is now their Chapel. I told them that that was where I learned to pray the Our Father and Hail Mary and they suggested we all get up to pray it just as I learned it.

I then realized that I had learned it in Church Slavonic, so they remained silent as they heard me utter those sacred words in Slavonic - words I barely got through without breaking down completely in tears!

Slavonic has a ring to it, especially the basic prayers, that is simply not to be had elsewhere.

Alex

Can't something be done to promote Slavonic in the various eparchies? The laity should take the lead on this. Even a list of individuals in the parishes (retirees, for example) who would be available to teach it would be good.

Sadly, I doubt that you'd get many young people showing up to a class.

R.

Slava Isusu Christu!

I agree with you. I am teaching the basic prayers to my nine year old son. The Byzantine Church I go to is only considered a "community" since we don't have enough families to be technically called a church. But I would love to see us using at least a few prayers in Old Slavonic during DL, even once a month! As did many others, I was required to memorize the Otce Nas and other prayers in both English and Slavonic in catechism. It's not that hard. I also think teaching not just the language but the geneology side of Byzantine Catholocism is important. Not just to Ruthenians, such as myself, but to any Byzantine Catholic. What our ancestors did is just so important and was such a sacrifice, it deserves to be remembered and passed onto the next generation. Speaking Slavonic and returning to our liturgical traditions (including a married priesthood in the U-S) is just one way of honoring the sacrifices our ancestors made. I will not forget them. We have some big shoes to fill!

Slava Na Viki!

Tim

For those who enjoy and/or desire the use of Church-Slavonic: please begin right now by learning the alphabet! Then practice it on a daily basis. Hint: the service-books printed in Church-Slavonic in Rome are well-printed with an admirable, clear type-face (nowadays I should properly call it a font).

Forget the transliterations; they are neither adequate nor accurate. LEARN THE ALPHABET.

Fr. Serge

[quote] I'll never forget the day we spoke at a conference held in the basement of St Nicholas' parish. I parted by thanking you profusely for your dedication to the UGCC and you replied by saying, "Think nothing of it, cholovitche!"[/quote]

Oh no, I hope this does not lead to another lengthy discussion of the vocative case again.

I notice that my Ukrainian Orthodox relatives in Europe have no desire to have the liturgical language switched from Church Slavonic to vernacular Ukrainian.
What is going on the Ukrainian Catholic Church in Ukraine? Church Slavonic or Ukrainian?

Both Church-Slavonic and Ukrainian are used in the Greek-Catholic Church in Ukraine - in varying proportions in different places, naturally.

Fr. Serge

In Rusyn villages in Slovakia, Poland and Ukraine, Slavonic is used for the Liturgy and Rusyn the vernacular for the Gospel and homily. Bishop John Bilock used to do this for the Radio Apostolate in Pittsburgh.

With those great RDL books without one word of Slavonic, how are we suppose to keep the Slavonic Liturgy? There are some of us out there that know the Slavonic Liturgy verbatim as if it were English.

Go to this website and see how the Roman Catholics are preserving the Latin Mass, at least in Pittsburgh: www.pittsburghlatinmass.org [pittsburghlatinmass.org]

Too bad the Byzantine Catholic bishops have eradicated this for us that loved the Slavonic Liturgy.

Now I have to resort to listening to CD's or old recordings of the Slavonic Liturgy. I also log onto Radio Patria
(www.rozhlas.sk [rozhlas.sk] This is ethnic broadcasting in Slovakia) when they have Liturgy from Rusyn villages.