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Do you think that the Western Rite would appeal to Catholics?

What could they do to do so? I believe that they should celebrate the liturgy of Saint Gregory in Latin, instead of English, and that all Anglican appereance should be removed (hymns, rubrics, etc.).

From what I know, the current version is in fact the 1965 Missal which contains many changes that Traditional Catholics regard as unacceptable. Would a 1955 version attract these people to Orthodoxy?

Probably not, since we traditional Catholics do like our Papacy! And the rest of our Faith, too.

Alexis

Since most Western Orthodox parishes in the USA are made up largely of former Anglicans, and part of the reason for their very existence is to bring these former Anglicans into Orthodoxy while allowing them to retain their liturgical heritage, I cannot imagine that they would be forced to make these changes that you are suggesting.

Ryan

The Liturgy of St. Gregory has no Anglican appearances. The Western Rite has two separate liturgies. The Liturgy of St. Gregory can be celebrated in Latin, though no congregation does so exclusively.

The Liturgy of St. Gregory pre-dates the 1962 Missal, which is what is used in indult masses. Of course, the RCs most attracted to the Latin Mass also tend to be the most devoted to the Papacy (although some of them are not in communion with their local bishop, much less the Pope).

That's a good thing. As I've pointed out elsewhere, we'd rather have people not join the Western Rite because they don't share the Orthodox Faith than have them believe they are somehow pre-Vatican II Roman Catholics.

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Western Orthodoxy Blog [westernorthodox.blogspot.com]

If one were to pose the same question about Byzantine Catholicism ("What does it offer to Roman Catholicism?"), the answers become clearer. In addition to preserving the Western heritage of the Church and demonstrating a certain cultural universality of Orthodoxy, it also renders a valuable service to "converts" from a Western background: the structure and many of the elements of the Western Rite liturgies are more familiar to Christians raised in Western churches than the Divine Liturgy of St. John Chrysostom. Though not identical as a whole, the overlaps are no small comfort when dealing with the major dislocations catechumens will encounter if they truly reorient their lives around God and the demands made by His Body.

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Western Orthodoxy Blog [westernorthodox.blogspot.com]

The great majority of Greek-Catholics are from families who have been Greek-Catholics for centuries, so the question of converting to Greek-Catholicism only applies to a minority. I've not inquired, but I would suspect that there are several possible motives. One occasionally finds that when an Eastern Orthodox is marrying a Roman Catholic, the couple will decide to compromise on a Greek-Catholic parish if one is within reach.

It might be interesting to do some sort of survey, but so far it doesn't seem to have happened.

Fr. Serge

Have you had any experience of other Orthodox who were originaly Eastern Rite trying to search the Western Rite?

I myself grew up with both the Orthodox liturgy in Spanish as well as the Novus Ordo, and even though it was very obvious that the first one was much more ancient, traditional and reverent than the second one, I still found them a little bit similar (the dialogue liturgy, the participation, and so on).

However about 2 years ago I attended Vespers in the Old Roman Rite for the first time and it was really impressing, the same I could say about the Divine Liturgy (and it was the saturday before easter) the silcence, the reverence and all the solemn ceremonies of the lections, the Exsultet, the fire and all this at the same time, different from those of the Eastern Rite but neverthless part of the undivided Church.

Maybe some Orthodox could be attracted to these rites too.

Ah, Fr. Serge, my contrast is about those converting to Orthodoxy. ByzCaths haven't been completely without luck, though; I know some Roman Catholics (Novus Ordo rite) who discovered the Byzantine heritage by visiting an Orthodox Church, then ended up joining the Eastern Rite. Those sorts of "internal conversions" are not are common as they once were, but they still occur.

I also know many traditionalists who went to the Byzantine Rite because of the Novus Ordo, but there aren't many of those being produced anymore....

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Western Orthodoxy Blog [westernorthodox.blogspot.com]

Mexican,

To answer your question, I know of a few Eastern Orthodox who converted to the traditional Roman expression of the Catholic Faith. I also know of one reverse case, though he is a complete nut, so I pity the non-canonical Orthodox jurisdiction that has him!



Alexis

I'm not entirely sure what our Western Orthodox brother is asking. But one does encounter converts from this or that (ranging from atheism to whatever) who become Greek-Catholics. We usually avoid publicizing such conversions; these things are matters of intimacy and best kept that way (allowing for occasional exceptions such as John Henry Newman).

The phenomenon of Roman Catholics seeking us out did not begin with the arrival of the Novus Ordo; it's been happening for much longer than that.

Fr. Serge

That your "Western Orthodox brother" is not asking anything should be clear by the lack of a single question mark in his posts. I replied to the original question of what the WR added to the Orthodox Church. You inexplicably brought up "the question of converting to Greek-Catholicism," and I was wrong to reply to your off-topic post. You now press that there is some question involved.

Cardinal Newman was a Greek-Catholic?? There is, of course, an entire television program dedicated to exposing this "intimacy" to the entire world, which has, as you know, featured Orthodox "converts" to ER Catholicism.

There's no question it greatly increased the exodus; nearly all those I know who changed rites did so because in one way or another because of the Novus Ordo Mess.

But none of this has any place on this thread about WR Orthodoxy and should be overlooked or placed on its own thread (which I'll then ignore).

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Western Orthodoxy Blog [westernorthodox.blogspot.com]

Absolutely! Most have had the same reaction you do. They are particularly fond of the meditative character of the chant, the slower "pace" of the Western Orthodox Mass (as opposed to the somewhat faster Byzantine chant), the ancient list of saints in the Roman canon (which is often aloud in our practice), and the other clearly apostolic practices in the WR that, while different, seemed somehow "the same." Visitors from Byzantine Orthodoxy are usually positively disposed to our services, though one may find an exception here or there (just as one may occasionally find a WRO who shares that view of the Byzantine Rite).

I think those experienced with numerous liturgies begin to find their underlying commonalities rather than their alleged "differences." This is one of the major focuses of my blog [westernorthodox.blogspot.com], showing these similarities.

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Western Orthodoxy Blog [westernorthodox.blogspot.com]

Dear Western Orthodox,

A word to the wise - no one, as far as I know, has ever won an argument with Fr. Archimandrite Sergius Keleher.

FYI.

Alex

My mention of Cardinal Newman was as an exception to the rule that the decision to leave one Church and join another is an intimate matter and should not usually be made public. In the instance of Newman he did not seek notoriety; he was attacked and he responded.

I look forward to his eventual canonization.

Fr. Serge

Then you haven't been paying attention. (LOL.)

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Western Orthodoxy Blog [westernorthodox.blogspot.com]